Bagged a 5-speed GTS cheap- twice!!!!
05-05-2009, 12:56 AM
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Bagged a 5-speed GTS cheap- twice!!!!
So the stroker motor is coming along, and I had prepared the GT by pulling its motor a few weeks ago. Then an interesting opportunity arose- Jim Morton kindly pointed out a beautiful Midnight blue 5-speed GTS in Portland that the owner needed to sell. He'd posted it on the PacNW site, and Jim forwarded the pictures along to me:
The car was repainted over a 6 month period in 2006, the receipt is 8 pages long and tallied at $10,811. There's also some fancy Alpine stereo with a spinny sort of faceplate with swimming dolphins on it and a pair of JL Audio amps and a subwoofer in the rear. The dash and pod are perfect (save a velcro adhesive square I haven't removed) and the leather is still soft everywhere.
The car is pictured with HRE's custom offset for a GTS, I didn't buy those (they're for sale and I can put you in contact with the owner if anyone's interested)
Bottom line, the owner was asking $22K, because the motor (being a '93) was consuming oil at a high rate and his shop said that it would need a rebuild, which he was not up for. The car is every bit as nice in person as the pictures make it look.
Would you buy this car for $22K? I would.
So- I bit, hard, bought the car sight unseen and booked a flight to Portland to pick it up before he came to his senses. I figured, with a spare stroker motor at home, there was nothing that a PPI was going to show that I couldn't fix, so I dispensed with a PPI. [foreshadowing] this may have not been the smartest decision I have ever made.... [/forshadowing]
Saturday I flew to Portland and picked up the car. Checked the oil before I left, it was just above the upper mark. That night I drove ~300 miles to Medford, made it no problem. Checked the oil and it was still above the top mark. There was a little driveline vibration above 3500 rpm, I called Mark Anderson who suggested perhaps a TT bearing, or a loose guide tube in the clutch. I checked it again Sunday AM in Yreka, CA , still above the top.
BTW, NorCal is gorgeous:
Cool ghost image of the GTS on the wet guardrail:
Somewhere south of Redding, CA:
I stopped at Jim Morton’s place in the Bay Area and showed him and Bill Ball the car- we ran it on Bill’s diagnostic tester (everything was ok) and Jim checked and smelled the oil- looked good to him, though he said it smelled like Dino oil and not Mobil 1. (Guess he’s got a good nose….) I checked it again in about 200 miles from home in the central valley, everything looked good. The oil pressure had been running between 4 and 4.5 all day long, so I figured that was the normal range for this car……
It got a lot warmer as I went south, so I rolled down the windows as the A/C doesn’t work- lots of wind noise at 80 mph. When I got to the bottom of the Grapevine I dropped it into 4th and powered up the hill at 4000 rpm. Halfway up the temp gauge had risen from 185 to 195, maybe 200, so I put on the heater and watched the oil pressure drop to 3, and then 2.5. Made me real nervous so I dropped into 5th and feathered the throttle- the oil came back above 3 and the temp came down a little, and then I rolled up the windows to listen to the motor. At which point I heard a horrendous knocking noise. About 10 seconds later something let go, there was a violent lurch and something perforated the block , as the dash lit up and the oil pressure went to 1 and the oil level warning came on. Felt like running over something solid, the whole car jolted. This was right as I passed the Tejon pass sign at 4100 feet. Since I was now headed downhill with a dead car, I flipped the hazards on and coasted about a mile and a half to an exit ramp (passed a AAA flatbed while coasting and I waved at him, but he wasn’t interested….) There was a trail of oil behind the car down the offramp (though I suspect I lost most of it during the blowup- the whole underside of the car is coated. Both belly pans are on so I didn’t get a chance to see where it let go, but I'm pretty sure I ventilated the block. Took 90 min for AAA to show up (AAA plus- free towing up to 100 miles). I called Mark A who offered a space in his back lot, so I had it towed there- 95 miles. Ain’t karma a bitch?
DOA:
Ooh, dis not be cheep:
Ernie loads it up:
So I blew the motor up. Mark offered to put it in the back yard at 928Intl, he met me there at 8:30 on a Sunday night to help get it secured. (Not sure how I'm going to pay you back for this one, Mark!
All in all it was some sort of Dickensian best-of, worst-of weekend.
The Monday AM quarterbacking:
A) I should have pulled off right before the Grapevine and let it cool and re-checked the oil, but it hadn’t used any in 800 miles, not sure why it waited 900 miles to blow up, but I'm glad it wasn't at 11:30 on a rainy 39 degree Saturday night in the mountains of Southern Oregon...
B) Rationalizing not to get a PPI- I’m sure the PO did not realize the true condition of the motor. I was fixated on the TB (done 21K miles ago) and the car had been regularly driven, so I figured it would at least make it home. I also wonder whether a full leakdown and compression check would have told me anything, but short of pulling the pan and checking the rod bearings on a PPI, I’m not sure I could have prevented blowing it up. As Greg Brown suggestd today, ALWAYS change the oil and cut open the filter and look at the paper for metal. I’m going to second guess myself on this for a long time……
C) I should have just shipped the car to SoCal and not blown up a whole weekend driving it home, etc.- Somehow $600 for a shipper seems like a deal now $200 for plane, $150 for gas, and, oh, a blowed up GTS motor so the car will never be complete and original again. Now there’s only one ’93 midnight blue 5-speed left- wonder if it’s still in one piece.
I wrote up the text for the bill of sale, and included a nice little paragraph on there being no warranty, no seller responsibility, etc. etc. I’m not upset with the PO, just at myself for violating all the rules of buying a used car when I should know better. Ah well, I'll install the stroker, make it run like a scalded dog, and move on.
Boo hoo, there's no motor in my GT. Boo hoo, there's no motor in my GTS. I'm feeling pretty lucky right about now, life could be a lot worse, guys......
So I bagged the same GTS twice in 2 days. First by stealing it from the PO, and then by bagging the motor.
Talked to Chuck Z today- he said, consider it an engineless $11K GTS with an immaculate interior and an $11K paint job that's all ready for a stroker motor. Chuck is a wise man, methinks......
The car was repainted over a 6 month period in 2006, the receipt is 8 pages long and tallied at $10,811. There's also some fancy Alpine stereo with a spinny sort of faceplate with swimming dolphins on it and a pair of JL Audio amps and a subwoofer in the rear. The dash and pod are perfect (save a velcro adhesive square I haven't removed) and the leather is still soft everywhere.
The car is pictured with HRE's custom offset for a GTS, I didn't buy those (they're for sale and I can put you in contact with the owner if anyone's interested)
Bottom line, the owner was asking $22K, because the motor (being a '93) was consuming oil at a high rate and his shop said that it would need a rebuild, which he was not up for. The car is every bit as nice in person as the pictures make it look.
Would you buy this car for $22K? I would.
So- I bit, hard, bought the car sight unseen and booked a flight to Portland to pick it up before he came to his senses. I figured, with a spare stroker motor at home, there was nothing that a PPI was going to show that I couldn't fix, so I dispensed with a PPI. [foreshadowing] this may have not been the smartest decision I have ever made.... [/forshadowing]
Saturday I flew to Portland and picked up the car. Checked the oil before I left, it was just above the upper mark. That night I drove ~300 miles to Medford, made it no problem. Checked the oil and it was still above the top mark. There was a little driveline vibration above 3500 rpm, I called Mark Anderson who suggested perhaps a TT bearing, or a loose guide tube in the clutch. I checked it again Sunday AM in Yreka, CA , still above the top.
BTW, NorCal is gorgeous:
Cool ghost image of the GTS on the wet guardrail:
Somewhere south of Redding, CA:
I stopped at Jim Morton’s place in the Bay Area and showed him and Bill Ball the car- we ran it on Bill’s diagnostic tester (everything was ok) and Jim checked and smelled the oil- looked good to him, though he said it smelled like Dino oil and not Mobil 1. (Guess he’s got a good nose….) I checked it again in about 200 miles from home in the central valley, everything looked good. The oil pressure had been running between 4 and 4.5 all day long, so I figured that was the normal range for this car……
It got a lot warmer as I went south, so I rolled down the windows as the A/C doesn’t work- lots of wind noise at 80 mph. When I got to the bottom of the Grapevine I dropped it into 4th and powered up the hill at 4000 rpm. Halfway up the temp gauge had risen from 185 to 195, maybe 200, so I put on the heater and watched the oil pressure drop to 3, and then 2.5. Made me real nervous so I dropped into 5th and feathered the throttle- the oil came back above 3 and the temp came down a little, and then I rolled up the windows to listen to the motor. At which point I heard a horrendous knocking noise. About 10 seconds later something let go, there was a violent lurch and something perforated the block , as the dash lit up and the oil pressure went to 1 and the oil level warning came on. Felt like running over something solid, the whole car jolted. This was right as I passed the Tejon pass sign at 4100 feet. Since I was now headed downhill with a dead car, I flipped the hazards on and coasted about a mile and a half to an exit ramp (passed a AAA flatbed while coasting and I waved at him, but he wasn’t interested….) There was a trail of oil behind the car down the offramp (though I suspect I lost most of it during the blowup- the whole underside of the car is coated. Both belly pans are on so I didn’t get a chance to see where it let go, but I'm pretty sure I ventilated the block. Took 90 min for AAA to show up (AAA plus- free towing up to 100 miles). I called Mark A who offered a space in his back lot, so I had it towed there- 95 miles. Ain’t karma a bitch?
DOA:
Ooh, dis not be cheep:
Ernie loads it up:
So I blew the motor up. Mark offered to put it in the back yard at 928Intl, he met me there at 8:30 on a Sunday night to help get it secured. (Not sure how I'm going to pay you back for this one, Mark!
All in all it was some sort of Dickensian best-of, worst-of weekend.
The Monday AM quarterbacking:
A) I should have pulled off right before the Grapevine and let it cool and re-checked the oil, but it hadn’t used any in 800 miles, not sure why it waited 900 miles to blow up, but I'm glad it wasn't at 11:30 on a rainy 39 degree Saturday night in the mountains of Southern Oregon...
B) Rationalizing not to get a PPI- I’m sure the PO did not realize the true condition of the motor. I was fixated on the TB (done 21K miles ago) and the car had been regularly driven, so I figured it would at least make it home. I also wonder whether a full leakdown and compression check would have told me anything, but short of pulling the pan and checking the rod bearings on a PPI, I’m not sure I could have prevented blowing it up. As Greg Brown suggestd today, ALWAYS change the oil and cut open the filter and look at the paper for metal. I’m going to second guess myself on this for a long time……
C) I should have just shipped the car to SoCal and not blown up a whole weekend driving it home, etc.- Somehow $600 for a shipper seems like a deal now $200 for plane, $150 for gas, and, oh, a blowed up GTS motor so the car will never be complete and original again. Now there’s only one ’93 midnight blue 5-speed left- wonder if it’s still in one piece.
I wrote up the text for the bill of sale, and included a nice little paragraph on there being no warranty, no seller responsibility, etc. etc. I’m not upset with the PO, just at myself for violating all the rules of buying a used car when I should know better. Ah well, I'll install the stroker, make it run like a scalded dog, and move on.
Boo hoo, there's no motor in my GT. Boo hoo, there's no motor in my GTS. I'm feeling pretty lucky right about now, life could be a lot worse, guys......
So I bagged the same GTS twice in 2 days. First by stealing it from the PO, and then by bagging the motor.
Talked to Chuck Z today- he said, consider it an engineless $11K GTS with an immaculate interior and an $11K paint job that's all ready for a stroker motor. Chuck is a wise man, methinks......
05-05-2009, 01:15 AM
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Rob:
Again, so sorry to learn of the motor mishap. Everything sounded OK as you left my place, no smoke on start or obvious rod knock. Damn... Do report what you find when you get the car home and up in the air.
As far as the "other" GTS goes, it's going on the transporter, CA bound tomorrow.
Fingers crossed for good karma for both of us as the next few weeks unfold.
Again, so sorry to learn of the motor mishap. Everything sounded OK as you left my place, no smoke on start or obvious rod knock. Damn... Do report what you find when you get the car home and up in the air.
As far as the "other" GTS goes, it's going on the transporter, CA bound tomorrow.
Fingers crossed for good karma for both of us as the next few weeks unfold.
05-05-2009, 01:16 AM
#4
Drifting
Dang Rob. Despite your bad luck I am envious of your trip. I would have ridden shotgun in a second. And dropping me off in Santa Barbara would have avoided you the grapevine.
05-05-2009, 01:19 AM
#5
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Sorry to hear it did'nt work out better for you Rob, but at $22K you're probably still not into it for more than it's worth, depending on the mileage. That is one gorgeous GTS, and it sounds like the story is going to have a happy ending.
05-05-2009, 01:22 AM
#6
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So Jim- Can I tell 'the rest of the story' now? 
PS- got your mail today. Thanks!
PS- got your mail today. Thanks!
05-05-2009, 01:23 AM
#7
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Rob, that is unfortunate that the motor let go, just do not kick yourself very hard over it.
At least it did not burn to the ground and nobody was hurt.
At least it did not burn to the ground and nobody was hurt.
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05-05-2009, 01:24 AM
#8
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Egad!
The noise you demonstrated at Jim's house was not ominous. It was too intermittent and high RPM related to be rod knock. And it was clutch actuation related, IIRC.
You seem to be taking this philosophically, which is the best thing to do, but I can only imagine the "OH S%$T!" moment when the dash lit up and the pressure fell to zip. My sympathies. You still got a beautiful car and with the motor you had already planned to pop into it, it will be a screamer.
The noise you demonstrated at Jim's house was not ominous. It was too intermittent and high RPM related to be rod knock. And it was clutch actuation related, IIRC.
You seem to be taking this philosophically, which is the best thing to do, but I can only imagine the "OH S%$T!" moment when the dash lit up and the pressure fell to zip. My sympathies. You still got a beautiful car and with the motor you had already planned to pop into it, it will be a screamer.
05-05-2009, 01:34 AM
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Wow Rob!
I'd also emailed the owner when he had it on ebay and he'd sent all the pictures but he was still wanting over $30,000. Had I known he was down to $22,000 I'd have done the same thing you did, including forgoing the PPI. 900 miles would have put me in the middle of nowhere trying to get back to Denver. So sorry to hear the engine grennaded, good luck and keep us posted.
I'd also emailed the owner when he had it on ebay and he'd sent all the pictures but he was still wanting over $30,000. Had I known he was down to $22,000 I'd have done the same thing you did, including forgoing the PPI. 900 miles would have put me in the middle of nowhere trying to get back to Denver. So sorry to hear the engine grennaded, good luck and keep us posted.
05-05-2009, 01:35 AM
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Rob:
I'd say we can "let the cat out of the bag"... I've already editted my sig. line
Too bad, you're having to deal with two engines right now
Hopefully we'll both be doing some
in the blue beasts in the not too distant future.
I'd say we can "let the cat out of the bag"... I've already editted my sig. line
Too bad, you're having to deal with two engines right now
Hopefully we'll both be doing some
in the blue beasts in the not too distant future.
05-05-2009, 01:38 AM
#12
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Bill- yeah, you don't want to see the 'CHECK ENGINE OIL LEVEL' graphic on the digital display. The second I closed the window and I heard the noise, my thought was, oh crap, I've killed it, and started looking how to get to the shoulder, but it went almost immediately after that. A most unpleasant noise it was. Should be an interesting autopsy.
I can only imagine what the tow truck guy was thinking as I'm coasting downhill next to him with my hazards going, flailing my left arm out the window trying to get him to stop. Shoulda waved my AAA card at him....
I think I was very lucky it didn't let go in some long sweeping turn in the rain hundreds of miles from nowhere, where the oil slick would have blown all over one of the rear tires instead of out the back. I was also lucky that it didn't happen a mile earlier while I was in the leftmost lane of 4 on the uphill section of the freeway. And that I reflexively pulled it into neutral as soon as it went kablooie. And that no one hit me as I slowed (not much, fortunately) And that there was enough vacuum left to get the thing stopped at the end of that long offramp. And so on.
Greg Brown suggested I should take a picture of an engine block, draw 100 squares on it, and we could all play GTS bingo, betting on which square has the hole in it.
I can only imagine what the tow truck guy was thinking as I'm coasting downhill next to him with my hazards going, flailing my left arm out the window trying to get him to stop. Shoulda waved my AAA card at him....
I think I was very lucky it didn't let go in some long sweeping turn in the rain hundreds of miles from nowhere, where the oil slick would have blown all over one of the rear tires instead of out the back. I was also lucky that it didn't happen a mile earlier while I was in the leftmost lane of 4 on the uphill section of the freeway. And that I reflexively pulled it into neutral as soon as it went kablooie. And that no one hit me as I slowed (not much, fortunately) And that there was enough vacuum left to get the thing stopped at the end of that long offramp. And so on.
Greg Brown suggested I should take a picture of an engine block, draw 100 squares on it, and we could all play GTS bingo, betting on which square has the hole in it.
05-05-2009, 01:44 AM
#13
Wow...that's a real bummer....the PO is well known here in the pacnw....and definitely not one to pull one over on some one...as a matter of fact...he is known for keeping his cars clean and well sorted... Is there a diagnosis on the grenading motor yet?...
05-05-2009, 01:54 AM
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Rob,
Really sorry about your misfortune. I was interested in this car and talked with the owner a couple of times. Something had me thinking there was more going on with the engine than oil consumption... But, for that price I would have been all over it too.
Hopefully that paint job is every bit as nice as the photos show. It is a beautiful car and I'm sure you'll have it back on the road again soon.
ATB,
Bill
Really sorry about your misfortune. I was interested in this car and talked with the owner a couple of times. Something had me thinking there was more going on with the engine than oil consumption... But, for that price I would have been all over it too.
Hopefully that paint job is every bit as nice as the photos show. It is a beautiful car and I'm sure you'll have it back on the road again soon.
ATB,
Bill
05-05-2009, 01:55 AM
#15
Just had a random thought pop into my head....wonder if while you were hammering it up the hill..the intake ingested some oil ..and it detonated due to low octane..and the weak 93 rods..just let go?... hate this kind of speculation, but hopefully the autopsy will reveal something...