GregBBRD

If you look at Kevin's windage tray and the amount of work it takes to fabricate all of that stuff, the amount of detail, and the "quality" of the construction, it seems like a real bargain, to me. (I have no idea what it all does, when it is installed....as I have never tried one of his pieces.) I do know how much time it takes to fabricate my simple pieces....and they are no way near as complex....or as pretty.

Seems like all custom fabrication takes a ton of time and unless you do it all the time....you really can't appreciate what it takes.

jorj7

Nope, Dip stick blew out of the tube and all the oil pumped out. The oil
return line from the supercharger goes into the dip stick tube and the
crank case pressure forced it out the top

GregBBRD

Seriously, if I had anything like that picture happen in my driveway....I'd find another hobby. Certainly, your failures can't look like that picture, Mark. That's just nasty. The last time I saw one like that is when John Mulvihill blew up his new GT at Willow.

For all those who have never been to Laguna Seca, anything slower than a 1:35 is measured with an egg timer. For 1:40 and slower, we use the "sun moving across the sky" clock.

Leon Speed

That reminds me to change the dipstick or the o-ring, even for my NA engine.

ew928

Stan Shaw found that a good ole zip-tie is very convenient for locking the dipstick down. There may be more elegant ways to tie down wayward dipsticks.
When at the track, what you got's is what you use.

BC

Oh Crap. I gotta check what I got at Laguna on Grand Turismo 4. I may be very disappointed.

GregBBRD

MK:

Just playing with 'ya. I've never ever been faster than a 1:37 around there, myself....so I'm in the egg timer group, too.

mark kibort

hmmm, anderson ran 1:40.1 in qual and 1:40.1 in the Speedvision race in 1999and not much faster in 2000. In 2001, he ran 1:42.5. (thanks to street tires) Oh yeah, he was running one of your engines too. Did I mention in 2002, i ran that 1:40.2 with the holbert car with 100 less hp? . The winners, top pros, were only in the 1:37s. Amazing what a little weight and some DOTs or street tires do to the time.
A few years later, Mark A was able to click off a 1:35.xx on the DOTs, but he also had some pretty trick stuff on the car and the 150more hp than I ran.

I missed the Holbert running in the thick of things by only 1 season! wouldnt have that been a show if both of the 928s were in the top 10 on TV! the following year, EVERYONE got faster. Cup cars were the standard, and the corvettes hp went through the ceiling! I was relegated to bringing up the rear of the pack! . But, it was still a bunch of fun!

This last POC race, Mark clicked off 1:32 on slicks, and most the entire field was over 1:35.xx so they were timed with the egg timer. I guess if you are cooking eggs in the microwave, that is still pretty darn quick!

As far as failures, I was only refering to the brown bearings for scots on track failure and the galled pistons for something I actually witnessed. Little did I know i would be doing all the work for scots 4 engine pulls for all sorts causes.. Free labor is not that hard to find around here!
And yes, ive never seen anythng like those pics REALLY ugly!

Mk

by the way, here are the 1999 qual results results for Laguna Seca and below that the 2000 results just in case you wanted some facts here.




MONTEREY, Calif. - Starters for Saturday's Speedvision World Challenge GT Championship race at Laguna Seca, part of the VISA Sports Car Championship Weekend, with starting position, car number in parenthesis, driver, hometown, car, time and speed in miles-per-hour.

1. (3), Peter Kitchak, Excelsior, Minn., Porsche 911 RSR, 1:37.154, 82.928.

2. (01), Bill Cooper, Bozeman, Mont., Corvette C5, 1:37.600, 82.549.

3. (32), Bobby Archer, Ft. Worth, Texas, Dodge Viper, 1:37.610, 82.540.

4. (22), George Biskup, Naperville, Ill., Porsche 911 RSR, 1:37.615, 82.536.

5. (39), John Heinricy, Holly, Mich., Corvette C5, 1:37.862, 82.328.

6. (94), David Schardt, Dayton, Ohio, Toyota Supra T, 1:38.459, 81.828.

7. (6), Sean Roe, Jacksonville, Fla., Dodge Viper, 1:39.118, 81.284.

8. (30), Derek Bell, Pagham Sussex, England, GTS, BMW M Coupe, 1:39.403, 81.051.

9. (28), Mark Anderson, Anahiem, Calif., Porsche 928, 1:40.140, 80.455.

10. (98), Reese ***, Marietta, Ga., Corvette C5, 1:40.150, 80.447.

11. (96), Paul Brown, Omaha, Neb., Saleen Mustang, 1:40.305, 80.323.

12. (03), Tommy Safar II, Point Pleasant, N.J., Corvette C-4, 1:41.128, 79.669.

13. (04), Terry Lackey, Hitchcock, Texas, Corvette LT-4, 1:41.521, 79.360.

14. (95), Jeff Demetri, Omaha, Neb., Saleen Mustang, 1:41.803, 79.141.

15. (56), Michael D. Judy, Fresno, Colo., Saleen Mustang, 1:42.269, 78.780.

16. (75), Ruppert Bragg-Smith, Las Vegas, Nev., Corvette C5, 1:42.447, 78.643.

17. (54), Pat DiGiovanni, Colorado Springs, Colo., Porsche 911 Cup, 1:42.626, 78.506.

18. (67), Peter Polli, Mendon, Vt., Corvette, 1:43.378, 77.935.

19. (36), Jim Oppenheimer, Chicago, Ill., Porsche 911 RSR, 1:44.497, 77.100.

20. (29), Walter Swick, Concord, Ohio, BMW M3, 1:44.557, 77.056.

21. (5), Tim Allen, Burbank, Calif., Saleen Mustang, 1:45.319, 76.499.

22. (40), Bruce Griggs, Sonoma, Calif., Ford Mustang, 1:45.352, 76.475.

23. (31), Randolph Watkins, Ft. Wourth, Texas, Dodge Viper, 1:45.620, 76.281.

24. (4), Co Van Herwaarden, Greeley, Colo., BMW M3, 1:48.953, 73.947.

25. (20), Mark Dixon, Longmont, Colo., Pontiac Firebird, 1:51.839, 72.039.

26. (99), Walter Dethier, Warren, Conn., Saleen Mustang, 1:53.763, 70


Laguna Seca Friday practice results
Racing series SCCA-WC
Date 2000-10-14



MONTEREY, Calif.–Combined practice session times for Sunday's Speedvision
World Challenge GT Championship Round Eight race, part of the GlobalCenter
Sports Car Championships at Laguna Seca Raceway, with position, car number
in parenthesis, driver, hometown, car, fastest lap time and speed in
miles-per-hour.
1 (38), Mike Fitzgerald (R), Phoenix, Ariz., Porsche GT3 Cup, 1:35.965, 83.955.
2 (9), Michael Galati, North Olmstead, Ohio, Audi S4 Comp., 1:36.226, 83.727.
3 (42), Peter Cunningham, W. Bend, Wis., BMW M3, 1:36.424, 83.555.
4 (52), Terry Borcheller, Phoenix, Ariz., Saleen SR, 1:36.491, 83.497.
5 (01), Bill Cooper, Bozeman, Mont., Corvette C5, 1:36.635, 83.373.
6 (32), Bobby Archer, Ft. Worth, Texas, Dodge Viper GTS, 1:36.853, 83.185.
7 (8), Derek Bell, Pagham Sussex, England, Audi S4 Comp., 1:37.053, 83.014.
8 (13), Eric Curren (R), South Deerfield, Mass., Corvette C5, 1:37.103, 82.971.
9 (22), Scott Bove (R), Avon Lake, Ohio, Porsche GT3 Cup, 1:37.339, 82.770.
10 (79), Justin Jackson (R), Alpharetta, Ga., Porsche 993 RSR, 1:37.570, 82.574.
11 (6), Frank Allers (R), Coquitlam, British Columbia, Corvette C5, 1:37.587, 82.560.
12 (39), John Heinricy, Holly, Mich., Corvette C5, 1:37.748, 82.424.
13 (25), Jeff McMillin, Erie, Pa., BMW M3, 1:37.859, 82.330.
14 (98), Reese ***, Marietta, Ga., Corvette C5, 1:38.334, 81.933.
15 (08), Ross Thompson (R), Phoenix, Ariz., Corvette, 1:38.404, 81.874.
16 (73), Phil McClure, Floris, Iowa, Corvette, 1:38.490, 81.803.
17 (75), Mark Wolocatiuk, Tahoe, Calif., Corvette ZR-1, 1:38.573, 81.734.
18 (97), Scotty B. White, Puyallup, Wash., Corvette C5, 1:38.721, 81.611.
19 (23), Bob Miller (R), Oakton, Va., Porsche 911 GT3, 1:38.865, 81.492.
20 (15), James Sofronas, Newport Beach, Calif., BMW M3, 1:38.977, 81.400.
21 (64), Rick Knoop (R), Portola Valley, Calif., Corvette C5, 1:39.105, 81.295.
22 (92), Mark Anderson (R), Anaheim, Calif., Porsche 928, 1:39.112, 81.289.
23 (77), Jimmy Adams (R), Suffolk, Va., Dodge Viper GTS, 1:39.375, 81.074.
24 (50), Joe Varde, Charlotte, N.C., Dodge Viper GTS, 1:39.559, 80.924.
25 (29), Walter Swick, Concord, Ohio, BMW M3, 1:39.613, 80.881.
26 (96), Paul Brown, Omaha, Neb., Saleen SR, 1:39.813, 80.718.
27 (47), J. Bob Taylor, Parker, Colo., Corvette C5, 1:40.649, 80.048.
28 (04), G.J. Mennen (R), Austin, Texas, Corvette C5, 1:41.230, 79.589.
29 (51), Tom Edwards (R), Paradise Valley, Ariz., Dodge Viper GTS, 1:41.633, 79.273.
30 (05), Steve Carvajal (R), Anthony, N.M., Saleen Mustang, 1:41.640, 79.268.
31 (03), Tommy Safar II, Farmingdale, N.J., Saleen SR, 1:41.686, 79.232.
32 (58), Nigel Burns (R), Palo Alto, Calif., BMW M3, 1:41.788, 79.152.
33 (07), Carol Hollfelder (R), Covina, Calif., Ferrari 355, 1:41.799, 79.144.
34 (0), Don Istook (R), Ft. Worth, Texas, Audi S4, 1:41.894, 79.070.
35 (37), Danny Kellermeyer (R), Ortonville, Mich., Corvette C5, 1:42.041, 78.956.
36 (30), Robert Rodriguez (R), Castro Valley, Calif., Corvette, 1:42.150, 78.872.
37 (5), Mark J. Dixon, Longmont, Colo., PontiacFirebird, 1:43.341, 77.963.
38 (24), Real (R), Valcourt, Quebec, Porsche 911 GT3, 1:43.387, 77.928.
39 (12), Dick Grieser (R), Toledo, Ohio, BMW M3, 1:43.836, 77.591.
40 (85), Rudy Courtade (R), Glendale, Calif., Porsche S-Cup, 1:45.148, 76.623.
41 (18), Daniel Eastman (R), Miami, Fla., Porsche 993 R, no time, 0.
42 (19), Jovo (R), Los Angeles, Calif., Toyota Supra T, no time, 0.
43 (76), Rob Foster (R), Omaha, Neb., Saleen Mustang, no time, 0.
44 (82), Ryan Negri (R), Beverly Hills, Calif., Porsche S-Cup, no time, 0.
45 (84), Derek Clark (R), Carona Del Mar, Calif., Porsche 993 Cup, no time,

GregBBRD

Too many facts...too confusing. What's that saying...oh yes..."Don't confuse me with the facts."

Laguna did indeed seem to get much faster a couple years back...did they repave? Back in the early '90's, you were a real hero to break a 1:40.

I was actually able to drive Laguna several times with the original configuration....that was an interesting ride! I recall several conversations with God, in that corner.

Mark Anderson

Before they made it up to standards, turn one was a big pucker. Flat out and hold on. The faint of heart did not fair well.
Reminds me of turn 2 at Mosport. The saying there is "In turn 2 you meet god"

mark kibort

Ill keep it real simple by translating. It address the jab that 1:40 is calendar slow, and 1:35 is egg timer slow.

1. Laguna hadn't changed until late 2006 where generally, it became 1-2 seconds faster with the repaving and a slight reconfig. change.

2. The Holbert car was as fast (1:40.2) in '02 as andersons car back in '99/'00. Kind of for the same reasons that Mark is so fast at Willow,and without 100 of your greg brown HP. From the video posted, I think he fixed a lot of the roughness of the car's handlng in following years. Many top pros had a tough time breaking into the 1:36s even with hardware MUCH more advanced than the Holbert original racer and even Mark Anderson's beast!. ( 4x lemans champ, Derek bell driving the 500hp 4x4 S4 audi, or ALMS racer Fitzgerald running a motorsport upgraded GT3, for example)

3. The track was much different in the '80s where there was no turn 2 as it stands today. it was just turn 1 and an arc to today's turn6 (kink). That, would have been awesome to drive!! Its a pretty slow track as tracks go today. Sears has a higher average speed, if you can believe that.

mk

928SS

aren't most of those motors dry sumped & putting out over 130hp / liter? how are they holding up compared to 928 motors at lower power / litre levels?

GregBBRD

I doubt that many people, with a good grasp of the "big picture", are going to debate that the 928 engine has "oiling issues" that get worse under severe use conditions. There are 3 or 4 entirely separate things that occur, under different conditions, that make the "oiling issue" appear. The resulting damage all looks the same and is always manifested in the same area, within the engine (#2 and #6 rods bearings). That is what is so frustating about the problem. You can cure one of the issues and still have the engine go "boom". A dry sump system or the "perfect" windage tray system isn't going to save every engine from damage....they just help. The engines still are going to suffer from "uber" soft rod bearings (in the stock rod engines), oil supply to the rods (crankshaft design problem), and oil quality issues (foaming, poor additive packages, and viscosity issues).

Certainly, the "perfect" oil might help cover up some of these issues...which is what Mark Kibort thinks his Amsoil does so well. There are other proven oils that work very well (Torco is one). If you compare the different "designer" oils that seem to help protect these engines from damage, they all seem to have many things in common.....good base stocks and high quantities of Zinc and Phosphorus. However, it is important to remember that the "oiling issues" are still there and will still cause failures. Doing one thing will not solve the problems. What is required is a good overview of the issues and a plan to eliminate as many of the individual problems as possible.

FlyingDog

My Mustang did that down the front straight at Summit Point.... smoked screened the field. All we found was that the dipstick popped out. I tried the zip tie trick at VIR and just ended up pumping oil out seals, again smoke screening the whole field up the climbing esses. Answer: blown head gasket. The cooling system was pressurizing the crankcase. IMO, that's not what happened to Georges engine. My engine looked like it was full of soft serve ice cream when we opened it.

GregBBRD

The stock rod bearings are very soft. They are very sensitive to any "pounding" that occurs from excessive loading. We found that even with dry sumping and extreme high quality oil, the stock rod bearings have a limited life exceptancy. Any increase in the number of "knocks" that the stock engine has will pound on the bearings. Porsche is very conservative with ignition timing, which has saved many engines from disaster....witness the supercharged engines. Ignition timing has been a somewhat difficult thing to change, up to the introduction fo the Sharktuner. Now that people have the ability to add ignition timing with the Sharktuner, we will see another round of exploding engines due to people "tuning" in more timing.....it is inevitable.

The "stroker" engines usually use "Chevy" based rod bearings. Certainly, there are soft rod bearings for Chevy engines, but most of the high performance bearings are much harder. This is a very good thing.

This is one of the "issues" that gets mistaken for an oiling problem. It can't be solved with a dry sump system or a windage tray.