Laguna Seca this weekend
08-24-2008, 10:15 PM
#61
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Missing a shift is grounds for DQ? I didn't know that. The guys behind him should have been able to stop or avoid him. I guess it differs from road driving where the person following is responsible for stopping in time.
08-24-2008, 10:16 PM
#62
Three Wheelin'
Anyway, Mark got disqualified for missing a gear at the start because the guys behind him couldnt react fast enough! I saw the entire thing and it was too bad and a big error that mark missed a shift, but in no way is it his fault that guys couldnt have got around him. Ive noticed that the POC guys dont have any other speed than flat out no matter what. We have had a lot of starts like this and somehow everone seems to get out of it ok! Sounds like they need a drivers meeting
. They say mark didnt give enough room on the inside line near the wall, but thats not how I saw it, and i was one of about 5 or 6 people that could see the entire start incident based on where i was standing.Cup cars are in a cup car class if they run one in POC otherwise, they also are R2R.
mk
08-24-2008, 10:34 PM
#63
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I agree. In SCCA it, without exception , the guy doing the passing's, responsibility. They made up some nonscience that mark didnt leave any room on the left hand side, which is total BS, as i was there. Mark just went lame duck and was in the middle as he went under the bridge. he made no side to side change and there was plenty of room based on the guy spinning sideways going around him after he was bumped by someone from behind too
I guess i need to youtube the video now. ahhh!
mk
I guess i need to youtube the video now. ahhh!
mk
What the hell? The cause of the contact was the idiot in the 3rd row who jumped the start and made it three wide behind Mark while he missed his shift. If he hadn't pulled that stunt there would have been plenty of room for the cars behind to move around him. What a load of crap....
08-25-2008, 12:21 AM
#66
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Here is the video now. It should be up and working.
click on high quality mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W6Tdu3STj0
Mk
click on high quality mode
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-W6Tdu3STj0
Mk
08-25-2008, 01:04 AM
#67
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The video doesn't show anything relevant. I saw the incident from the tower, right over the start area. I believe the DQ is bogus, but if that's the only way for the Cup car guys to win, I understand. They seemed determined to nail Mark.
08-25-2008, 07:44 AM
#68
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Sorry to hear about the DQ and especially the 13/13. From the descriptions of what happened it does not sound as if Mark A. did anything wrong. Giving enough room on the side for passing? Did not know you are supposed to worry about giving enough room for people to pass you in a race. In a DE session yes, but this was not a DE.
Sounds like the incident was also made worse by the person who jumped the start and made it a three car wide start down the track. I wonder if anyone else was given a DQ or 13/13.
Ah well, I'm sure Mark A. will weather this just fine. Still cool that he spanked everyone so well, maybe they should think about changing their 911 based race cars to 928 based race cars so they can start winning races without having to DQ Mark A. to do so.
Constantine
Sounds like the incident was also made worse by the person who jumped the start and made it a three car wide start down the track. I wonder if anyone else was given a DQ or 13/13.
Ah well, I'm sure Mark A. will weather this just fine. Still cool that he spanked everyone so well, maybe they should think about changing their 911 based race cars to 928 based race cars so they can start winning races without having to DQ Mark A. to do so.
Constantine
08-25-2008, 10:30 AM
#69
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Sorry to hear about the DQ and especially the 13/13. From the descriptions of what happened it does not sound as if Mark A. did anything wrong. Giving enough room on the side for passing? Did not know you are supposed to worry about giving enough room for people to pass you in a race. In a DE session yes, but this was not a DE.
Sounds like the incident was also made worse by the person who jumped the start and made it a three car wide start down the track. I wonder if anyone else was given a DQ or 13/13.
Ah well, I'm sure Mark A. will weather this just fine. Still cool that he spanked everyone so well, maybe they should think about changing their 911 based race cars to 928 based race cars so they can start winning races without having to DQ Mark A. to do so.
Constantine
Sounds like the incident was also made worse by the person who jumped the start and made it a three car wide start down the track. I wonder if anyone else was given a DQ or 13/13.
Ah well, I'm sure Mark A. will weather this just fine. Still cool that he spanked everyone so well, maybe they should think about changing their 911 based race cars to 928 based race cars so they can start winning races without having to DQ Mark A. to do so.
Constantine
08-25-2008, 12:10 PM
#70
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Here is the video
http://www.youtube.com/v/-W6Tdu3STj0
http://www.youtube.com/v/-W6Tdu3STj0
Congradulatins to Mark Anderson for an outstanding performance
and proudly carrying the 928 banner
Let us know in advance your next run at Laguna because I would love to drive up and watch Despite the DQ, your a winner in our hearts.
08-25-2008, 12:28 PM
#71
So..based on what I'm hearing, Mark got a raw deal? Can someone who was there and has video evidence lodge a complaint on the ruling?...Would suck if Mark got cheated out of a victory due to some **** a$$ cup car owners whining....
08-25-2008, 12:53 PM
#72
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WORSE than that, is they sent him home with no racing the rest of the weekend . NOW THAT IS BS!!!! they should give him a refund!
mk
mk
08-25-2008, 01:01 PM
#73
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FWIW, I suspect the issue here relates to the timing for when the green flag dropped relative to when Mark missed his shift. The PITA of this situation is that the course narrows right at start / finish where this all happened, so where does someone like Mark go given his starting position ???
From where we ( me, Bill, Kevin and his daughter ) were watching, it was clear that Mark had no where to go but he alos took no specific action to block anyone and simply tried to be predictable and let folks go by.
As a past SCCA DO (driver / observer), I would not have supported such a severe penalty against Mark as the video and results support his statement of a simple mis-shift and it's obviously clear that the other drivers pushed the green flag as hard a possible. For a club race, I would have suggested that the cars behind Mark had the repsonsibility for making a clean pass at the start given that Mark had the pole position. After all, it was simply the start of a "club" race.
$0.02 - YMMV
From where we ( me, Bill, Kevin and his daughter ) were watching, it was clear that Mark had no where to go but he alos took no specific action to block anyone and simply tried to be predictable and let folks go by.
As a past SCCA DO (driver / observer), I would not have supported such a severe penalty against Mark as the video and results support his statement of a simple mis-shift and it's obviously clear that the other drivers pushed the green flag as hard a possible. For a club race, I would have suggested that the cars behind Mark had the repsonsibility for making a clean pass at the start given that Mark had the pole position. After all, it was simply the start of a "club" race.
$0.02 - YMMV
08-25-2008, 01:50 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
I agree, and that is the way it is.
maybe they should use the PRC rules here under the NASA banner, and have NO passing before start finish!
There is always time trialing if you want to really be safe!:0)
mk
maybe they should use the PRC rules here under the NASA banner, and have NO passing before start finish!
There is always time trialing if you want to really be safe!:0)mk
FWIW, I suspect the issue here relates to the timing for when the green flag dropped relative to when Mark missed his shift. The PITA of this situation is that the course narrows right at start / finish where this all happened, so where does someone like Mark go given his starting position ???
From where we ( me, Bill, Kevin and his daughter ) were watching, it was clear that Mark had no where to go but he alos took no specific action to block anyone and simply tried to be predictable and let folks go by.
As a past SCCA DO (driver / observer), I would not have supported such a severe penalty against Mark as the video and results support his statement of a simple mis-shift and it's obviously clear that the other drivers pushed the green flag as hard a possible. For a club race, I would have suggested that the cars behind Mark had the repsonsibility for making a clean pass at the start given that Mark had the pole position. After all, it was simply the start of a "club" race.
$0.02 - YMMV
From where we ( me, Bill, Kevin and his daughter ) were watching, it was clear that Mark had no where to go but he alos took no specific action to block anyone and simply tried to be predictable and let folks go by.
As a past SCCA DO (driver / observer), I would not have supported such a severe penalty against Mark as the video and results support his statement of a simple mis-shift and it's obviously clear that the other drivers pushed the green flag as hard a possible. For a club race, I would have suggested that the cars behind Mark had the repsonsibility for making a clean pass at the start given that Mark had the pole position. After all, it was simply the start of a "club" race.
$0.02 - YMMV
08-25-2008, 02:42 PM
#75
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Yup... Knowing some of the drivers of the 911 based cars in Mark's run group, I was worried about the level of experience needed for a clean start given the turbo engined cars in Mark's run group. Some of these guys have been track driving for less than 5 years and are driving VERY complex to handle cars...
As example, considering the variations for how the HP gets made within the cars in this run group, NA vs. turbo, the drivers handle the "loud pedal" very differently at the drop of the green flag. This would be especically true for the turbo cars approaching the narrowing uphill start at Laguna with a NA V8 car on the pole.
I suspect that the car that hit Mark as well as the other car that went to the right of Mark were well spooled up with lots of MAP before the green flag and launched with lots of boost into the motor at the drop of the green, of course not in anyway expecting to have to shutdown and avoid. For me, this is the point where the "club" aspect of this whole mess comes into play with how to best sort out who is "at fault". Should a driver use a very agressive launch in a club race and if so (it is racing after all...) should not he have some responsibility if he punts a car in front of him ??? I would have hated to be the steward of the meet deciding this one.
Regardeless, I still think a 13/13 against Mark is darn harsh unless all affected parties got the same infraction.
Looking ahead, I am not sure it matters to Mark now, but I hate to think that POC might ballast the 928's as a result of his run away lap times over the "other" cars.
As example, considering the variations for how the HP gets made within the cars in this run group, NA vs. turbo, the drivers handle the "loud pedal" very differently at the drop of the green flag. This would be especically true for the turbo cars approaching the narrowing uphill start at Laguna with a NA V8 car on the pole.
I suspect that the car that hit Mark as well as the other car that went to the right of Mark were well spooled up with lots of MAP before the green flag and launched with lots of boost into the motor at the drop of the green, of course not in anyway expecting to have to shutdown and avoid. For me, this is the point where the "club" aspect of this whole mess comes into play with how to best sort out who is "at fault". Should a driver use a very agressive launch in a club race and if so (it is racing after all...) should not he have some responsibility if he punts a car in front of him ??? I would have hated to be the steward of the meet deciding this one.
Regardeless, I still think a 13/13 against Mark is darn harsh unless all affected parties got the same infraction.
Looking ahead, I am not sure it matters to Mark now, but I hate to think that POC might ballast the 928's as a result of his run away lap times over the "other" cars.