blau928

Pizza,

You should swap the IC & HE in your diagram for most efficiency. In addition, the pump should be at the lowest point of all the components.

Woody,

The logic of your statement is incorrect.

Here's why,

The stored coolant will be less than ambient temp. After the coolant is heated, the method in the pic pumps hot coolant into the storage tank, and this heats all the coolant to above ambient temp. In addition, if you pump the coolant to the HE before the IC, the coolant will then go to ambient before going to the IC, and then warm the storage tank as stated above.

If your thermal capacity of the system is not greater than the heat dissipation of the HE, then you will overload the system.

If you run to the IC first, then you have below ambient stored coolant, then the IC heats it up, then the HE extracts the heat as it should, and then you are returning close to ambient coolant to the storage tank.

If you freeze spray the HE with CO2 etc, it will still be better the way I described,as you will have a greater thermal capacity, as you will have stored below ambient coolant, and a greater reserve thermal capacity in the system.....

Science is sometimes not seemingly logical....

Pizza,

the time volume calc is very easy. You have a 22L/min pump, How many liters is the capacity of the system..? Divide the systyem capacity total by the flow rate (22/min) and you will have the max time at WOT using the flow direction I described.

Eg. if your capacity is 4 gals (15L) you divide 15/22 and you get .68 mins,or 41 seconds.

1L = 3.75 Gals.

Note, The capacity of the pump should be also rated to the demands of the IC... If not, the coolant will not circulate fast enought for the IC to do its job properly.... Ask the core maker what the flow rate of coolant should be through the model of core you have.....

HTH,

mspiegle

That makes sense, but if you were to use a spray technique to bring your coolant below ambient, how does the coolant stay below ambient while inside your resevoir? It will have more time to heat back up to ambient than if you had put your HE before the IC. Does that make sense?

Also, isn't the time volume calc assuming that you have no Heat Exchanger in the system? Whenever you're off-throttle, the heat exchanger should be doing its work.

I think you meant 3.75L = 1 Gals.

We need to get Tony on a track and see what his temperatures are like with lots of WOT over long periods of time

blau928

The coolant stays below ambient based on the heat dissipation properties of the coolant. It will warm up, but a lot slower than if you run it in reverse like was proposed. Reason is, the added heat of the SC charge temp is much greater than the ambient air delta to the ambient coolant. Therefore, delta of heated coolant to ambient coolant will be greater than cold stored coolant to ambient coolant... this will cause the thermal capacity of the system to be lower if set up as stated by diagram... Clear as mud now...?


No, the heat exchanger being there is affected by its heat rejection rate. IOW, the ability of the HE to reject heat from the coolant also determines the amount of time the system can sustain a specific thermal load before being overloaded. Small HE can reject heat less than big HE... Think AAIC, and the principle is the same. You have a flow rate of coolant, and thermal capacity of the entire system. The HE's job is to reject heat so that the system is not overloaded. Exactly the same as a radiator on the engine. If you drive at WOT for a long period, the temp gauge goes where...?

It's not very easy to do unless at a Track, an ORR, or back roads, or Germany etc. Most people will not be at WOT on public roads for more than 10-20 seconds... That's why they mostly have no issues. If you were to really get on it, then you will see the temps go only one way if the system is not adequately sized... UP..!

Does that make sense..?

Yes, thanks... Typo..


Yes... Rob (Blown Beast) made inclinations that on the track his system was running a bit warm..

I think in Tony's case, it would be the same.. I would caution for safety, as heat = detonation, and that = new engine quick...! I think many of the AWIC SC cars cannot sustain extended periods of WOT, unless the coolant capacity is adequate.. Just physics, nothing more or less... I certainly did not invent the theory... I just use it.


HTH,

mspiegle

Are you saying google is wrong?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...rs&btnG=Search

mspiegle

Thanks for the info Richard. That does make sense

BrianG

No, I'm saying that I can't read!

Doh!!

heinrich

I think that's like two Swazi Udders, IIRC ....

BC

If anything, why not a heat exhanger before and after the IC itself?

Run one tank at the back of the car (for better weight dist.) of maybe 5 gallons, and a pump of whatever capacity. You run a nicely sized HE before the IC on the engine, and then back to the front bumper for a much larger HE, then back to the tank.

Tony

Sorry, i posted that thread the other day on the way out the door and the Rennlist site was acting up....i didnt even think it posted...i also didnt have time to add other pictures . The tape was there soley to mask of the area i applied "the right stuff" to. Once it was applied and tacked up i removed the tape leaving a nice clean finsish that secured the TC wire in place. I wouldnt leave tape in there like that. im in atlanta now and when i get back in the AM i will add some more pics and shead some light on things i have seen regards temps.
Fyi..my last runs on the dyno(448rwp) displayed a max I/C discharge temp of 184'F

all4woody

Tony,
Let me know next time you are in ATL, I will run over and DS for a while.
I am looking at adding a HE to the system, and maybe a second tank, to cool the fluid before and after. Anything to get the temp to ambiant is worth a try. Thanks for all the info.
Later, Woody.

Warren928

A Few Q's on the IC and pulley since I just upgraded to an IC Jag Eaton:

Now that I have the manifold plate and IC, how do I mount it and run the plumbing?

Where to get a 9 psi pulley setup for it?

Is anybody running that water wetter stuff through their IC system to reduce temps?

So which answer is right on the plumbing? HE, reserve tank,then IC?

mspiegle

Not sure what you can do about the 9psi pulley. The pulley options for the jag/eaton are limited and Andy is probably sold out of them. Water wetter probably isn't a bad idea (cobra guys do it all the time). As for the plumbing, everyone currently runs it with the HE before the IC and it seems to be working. Richard has indicated that placing the HE after the IC should yield better results acoording to the laws of physics.

Also, on a somewhat related topic, those jag eatons can probably be polished/ported to provide additional power gains. I've seen some cobra guys (cobras come stock with an eaton SC) gain 20-40rwhp through porting these things. If anyone is curious and wants to research more or be a test mule, i've heard that http://www.stiegemeier.com/ is a good shop.

Warren928

Stiegermeier has their eatons running 16psi and 500rwhp with a porting job. Like you said, they have porting that will render 30, 40 , 50 HP extra. It costs about $100 per 10 HP, not too shabby.

mspiegle

If you're looking to be adventurous, you might be able to run a modified cobra pulley. I bought a pulley on ebay to see what the differences were and what modifications would be necessary to run it. IIRC, I was able to fit the pulley on my SC a little more than 1/2 way and run it. The downside is that it placed the belt more towards the front of the car on the crank pulley. I have no idea how "secure" this is, or how long it would run, but I had about 5,000 miles running like this. I think If you machined off a couple of the belt grooves, it might have worked a little better. I only got an extra 1 PSI out of it, but that's because that same pulley would have been overkill on a cobra (they probably use a larger crank pulley). There is also a shop called Reichard Racing who claims to be able to make custom pullies with a "special" technology that enhances belt grip. I never worked with them, but that may also be an option.

Tony

I actually use a bit of antifreeze. I found that in the summer out here it can get pretty dam hot under the vee and i think i was losing a bit of water to evaporation now and then...when i added a bit of antifreeze it seemed to stop. Antifreeze also has anti corroasion properties as well. Water wetter is used in straight water only...no antifreeze from what i understand.

Im at 448rwhp, daily driver here in vegas. What ive done, while probably not close to 100% the way it should be done, works for me..

resiviour tank...to pump..to HE...to I/C ...to resivour tank. IRRC from the ford parts list, thats the way the fords are set up? This summer i may ad 2 small fans to the HE so they run only when the car is stopped.

Perhaps done differently i could have got that 2hp to get me to 450rwhp