Noahs944

So to recap on HP/$ and why I think a top grade cam is worth the cash:

Internet claims Headers are worth 5-8 hp. (Stahl are dyno'd supposedly that). $850 US.
Milledge S3-14 Cam. Dyno tested. 12-18 hp. $850 US
Milledge 8SR-14 "Big Cam" as I call it, that is what I currently run. http://jonmilledgeengineering.com/product/8sr-14/. Dyno'd at 28 hp with other mods. $850 US

You do the math!

V2Rocket

there wouldn't really be any point getting the 1-3/4 or 1-7/8 headers for the 8v 944 since those pipes are larger than the exhaust port of the head lol

theoretically the sudden step could be used for tuning a pressure pulse but it'd be at a really high rpm since the port length is so short.

the thing about header pipe length depends on the goal of the motor - do you want to have a wider range of lesser power, or do you want a narrow range of peak power? one is more street friendly, the other is more sporty/racey.

if you look at the stock 944 manifolds they are a 4-2-1 design with 4 pipes of equal diameter but different lengths. so the pipes will all flow the same but the lengths make each individual pipe work better at a certain rpm range. the two rear pipes (3/4) are shorter than the two front pipes (1/2) and even those aren't length matched. so maybe pipe 1 hits at 2500rpm, pipe 2 at 3000, pipe 3 at 3500, pipe 4 at 4000rpm (or something like that), and the effect is improved torque over that rpm range vs having equal length pipes.

with equal length pipes, the length is tuned for a very narrow (or even a single rpm) range, which means that the motor makes less average power vs the unequal pipes, but then hits really hard when it gets close to the intended range.

the same idea applies to the collector as well - 4-2-1 manifolds have 4 pipes of varying lengths merging into 2 pipes of varying lengths and then into a single pipe. this length variance is also an rpm tuning feature to spread it out, like the stock or bursch manifolds.

the MSDS and Stahl are 4-1 units with long primary pipes that are probably equal length or close to it, and then the 4 pipes merge at the same time into a large collector...meaning they tune for a certain narrow rpm range, which makes more power at that range but may give up power elsewhere.

subaru cars have the trademark burble because they have uneven firing order and unequal length manifolds. but the guys that go looking for maximum power over all else switch to equal length pipes, which change the sound of the engine to a more typical 4-cylinder sound.

V2Rocket

it was skimmed 10 years ago just to get a good gasket sealing surface, i think maybe 0.012 or 0.015" to get through corrosion and pitting.

i figure it maybe took the CR up +0.1, but i don't care that much about CR.

V2Rocket

i have...
NA-tune ($500)
DME tuner ($400)
adjustable cam gear ($200)

and am so far at +17hp/+21tq, still with the stock early cam (which is down ~4 hp versus the late NA cam)

so i'd bet my gains would be compounded with the milledge stick.

Noahs944

No doubt you are a thinkin' man V2, so I'm sure you'll make some great decisions.
You asked how much power was my goal. I'm hesitant to answer... but lets just say I have met my first goal in power to weight ratio. I can tell by the feel of the car, my work is rewarding me now. I think the p/w ratio is about 25% better than 1988 stock. From here I'd like to improve the p/w ratio perhaps another 10 percent.

For me at this point I want to improve the interior. Sealing the cab from exhaust & rain. Get the windows functional. Get an LSD transaxle, tires. Learn how to drive better (take more courses/autocross).

Noahs944

what is that?

Noahs944

Driving on the this gravel road to Canmore is a bit sketchy.

Firstly, it's like a million oversized half round ball bearings under your tires that increased braking distance and turning radius.
Also, it's so dusty that even in the middle of the day you can see through the cloud of dust trailing a car. That last issue was reason enough to flick the low beams on & keep them on for the duration.

Another issue I noticed was the bald patches more central in the road offer by far the best traction. Unfortunately four patches often devolve to three then evolve back to four. This is another thing to me mindful of because you can end up in a front end collision because you will be sharing the middle patch with on coming traffic. But only sometimes.

After several moments when the traffic died down I pick up the pace. Man it was exciting. 100% concentration on driving lines and throttle input.

V2Rocket

upgrade to the MAF conversion, lets you tune the car with your laptop on the fly/dyno rather than wait for a new chip to be burned.

Noahs944

Then with my peripheral vision, a red coloured bird out of the forest collides with the upper right quadrant of my windshield.

Instinctively I look over my left shoulder to the projected trajectory of the bird.

BAD IDEA.

Next thing I feel the back end of the car sliding to my right. Oh sh*t! My eyes back on the road now and instinctively counter steering, then in response to my counter steering, Wilson's *** end wants to come out on the left hand side. This time the steering tires are in 10 inches of deep gravel that was pushed to the outer portion of the road. I counter steer the opposite way, trying to pilot the car straight. I see everything at once, the ditches & trees on the either side of the road! "It's okay" I whisper to myself... as I noticed I do in sketch mountain biking situations where there is a probability of eating Sh*t at any second. The car settles straight & I let off the throttle & drop down a gear. My hearts pumping. I feel terrible.

I feel terrible for that bird. I feel like such an idiot for taking my eyes off the road. I'm an idiot for driving too fast on a gravel road. I almost lost it all there.

From this moment on I am no longer loose & relaxed. I am clenching the wheel tight. My legs are stiff. My butt checks are squeezing uncontrollably. All I can think about is getting off this bloody gravel road. And the bird that *hopefully* is ok. Doubtful. But maybe... it just looked like it hit hard & really just glided off the aerodynamic profile of the windshield/roof? Well, that's out of my control.

But driving too fast on the gravel. Not a good idea. The gravel changes from deep to thin & changes the traction & handling characteristics of the car. I don't know... it deserves more respect then I gave it today.

I look at my fuel gauge. About half. Some quick calculating suggests I drive the other 30 some kilometers to Canmore. Then I can fill up. Then find a paved road to go home.

Browar

Thx for reply,
Do I understand correctly that big cam is not so good? Hp numbers are better but... Exactly what is but? Worse low/mid rpm performance? No go below 4000rpm? I ordered S3-14 because Jon suggested it after watching YT videos of my car and time trails I attend from time to time. I have middle and rear Dansk and will fit Stahl to it. Hope to love sound and performance.

Noahs944

So into Canmore. Hellish drive. HELLISH! The stiffening of my body was karma for being a dum-dum because the rough washboard gravel road transmitted all irregularities into my spine. My butt was begging for relief. And driving slow just prolonged the process. All I pray is that I can actually fill up with gas & make it home.

And I'm feeling grateful too. Grateful for the chicane training in Autocross. Because that is what saved me today from going off a cliff or colliding into a pine tree and inserting steering wheel to face.

-----------

Arriving at the top of some mountain. I planned on arriving in the town of Canmore, but Canmore is down below this mountain. And the gnarly gravel road is narrow & twisty & really quite steep. There are lots of SUVs & 4x4s with bikes attached. Wilson looks out of his element and I just slowly follow the road (road? more like a horse trail) down the side of this mountain. Being careful to not go too close to the edge where a few pylons visually warn of deterioration, and to press too close to the edge means certain death. We are up pretty high & if it was winter there's no way Wilson could descend this. I hope this is the right way because I dunno if I can make it back up this trail.

But the clouds separated & the angels sang sweetly as I slowly drove down & eventually made it into Canmore's downtown. Parked Wilson on main street & walked around.

I see an older killer 911 with the whale tail and some other Carrera models. I feel humbled, but the tourist atmosphere is actually really relaxing as I lean on a shaded storefront.

My car is thick with dust. Absolutely dirty. And I just bloody cleaned it before the drive. But wow, to the dudes walking past in this town, Ol' Wilson has never looked so good!

At least a third of the passer-bys look & about half slow down there stride & about half of those go up to Wilson. I hear a couple young men compare the mounting of the seats to the fixed buckets one of them has, and really check Wilson out with his expert eye, from all angles. Then as they walk away the expert says "that thing just looks FUN to drive".

In conclusion, big ***** styles & I got home. Oh yeah, and I'll try not to be an idiot in the future.

Noahs944

The S3-14 is a lovely cam. You'll enjoy it as you will your exhaust. You will need to make an adapter pipe and support bracket for your exhaust. All minor things but cutting & welding pipe are required.

To compare the cams I'd need a dyno to be accurate, and also there are other variables at play. Jon Milledge knows best and he won't steer you wrong. That s3-14 is super sweet and you'll notice when I was getting headwork done I mentioned "if I have to I'll go back to the milder cam".

I was somewhat interested in going back to this cam because my experience was so positive with it. Better for daily driving. The car runs better especially at idle. But when you are screaming at 6000 rpm, I suspect the bigger cam give more.

It's only when I adjusted the air/fuel ratio that I noticed more pep with the bigger 8R cam. Otherwise I didn't really notice much difference on the butt dyno.

Noahs944

The "Baller on a budget" low buck gt style headlamp conversion continues.

HID in incandescent lamp housings is not my bag it helped me get on the road but it IS BLINDING to other drivers & the blue light puts me to sleep... I have a big day with 9 hours of driving in a week or so & I can't do it with these... and my whole unfinished "ghetto" look is getting old. Time to update and hopefully finish the d**n headlamps.

So, I bought a hi/low european ECE/E code 60/55w 12V complete headlamp conversion in the 4"x6" variation. About $200 Canadian. Could not believe they were in stock since they aren't officially dot approved for some reason.

This price doesn't include the mounting bezel & bucket.

The bucket & bezel have been glass bead blasted by yours truly at work. Hard to believe they were rusty/flaky pieces off an 80's chevy van.*

Noahs944

Also blasted the aluminum bucket I made. Here's view of the old mounting (sans retaining wire so the headlamp doesn't rattle forward).

Noahs944

The lamp buckets from the van are tall and so this morning I'm mocking up the fit and trimming where required... removed the old clamp & square tubing set up I had. This time I will do whatever is required to mount the adjusting screws.