UDPride

Now before you even begin to answer that question, I must set the stage for you. I have needs. Its not just a matter of preference, but some element of practicality must be accounted for as well.

At the moment I have three cars: WRX, 951, 930. The WRX goes back to the dealer in August because the lease will be up. Which leaves me needing another car to get to and from work daily. I really prefer something with AWD so thats my first sticking point.

My iniitial feeling was to find a Subaru SVX or Audi 90 Quatto. SVXs are hard to come by however and a local lead I thought I had on one seems to be ignoring me or getting cold feet. And the Audis arent easy to come by either. Audis are not the cheapest cars in the world to maintain.

Surfing Autotrader last night, on a lark I decided to look at Mitsu 3000GT VR4s. A couple reasons, I just loved the look of the early cars -- before they got more rounded and went with the fixed headlights and circle tail. I figured they would be out of my price range given the plan of attack I had used on the SVX and Audi as I had no intention of selling either Porsche. I didnt really want to go over $5000 for a daily car because I want to cut some costs and put it toward the p-cars.

But I had a revelation when I came across an ad for a 1991 VR4 with 58,000 that is an absolute cherry in pristine condition. Never seen rain or snow Im told. Weekend car only. Original owner:

1991 Mitsu VR4 on Autotrader near me

So I began thinking. What if I sold the 951 and got a VR4? First off I would run a cash surplus by getting rid of one and going VR4. I would still have performance and I would get AWD and it would be a car I could drive 8 months out of the year every day. Right now Ive put 7,000 miles on the 951 since 1999 when I bought it. So it simply does not get driven a lot. I would be trading it for a car I could drive pretty much all the time. And with the surplus left over I would even have enough to grab a winter beater (Legacy wagon maybe) if I so chose.

And of course, I would hardly have to delve into any cash in order to make this all happen as the 951 would be footing the cost. Which would leave me in pretty good shape and without a car payment too since the WRX is getting returned. So basically Im trading a 951 for a mint VR4 I can drive every day. I LOOOOVE the 951 but in all honestly its brutal for a daily driver because its so harsh. And the 91 VR4s are just 10 times nicer on the inside. They are NIICE on the inside. A Mitsu will probably be a bit more reliable too, though any twin turbo is going to have its share of costs beyond a Honda. They are pretty fast cars though with 320hp, the same as the Supra Twin Turbos at the time, though I think Mitsu beat them to the punch a year or two early. I REALLY love how the early run of VR4s look too. And this particular one is a low mile car that seems to have been pampered. The dude seems firm on the $9000 range. I got conflicting price values. KBB said $7500, however NADA estimated $7000 low, $8400 avg, and $9450 high. A lot of these cars get abused so finding a good one isnt necessarily easy.

The fact that the 951 may be a slightly more intriguing car to own and drive is not really the deciding factor for me. Im looking at my practical needs. The fact that Im just not able to drive the 951 as much as Id like leaves me wondering if Id be better off with a daily sports car in pristine condition I CAN drive every day and still leave the 930 for all the Porsche-related enterprises.

I understand I COULD turn the 951 into an 8-mth daily driver, but like I said its really brutal on Dayton roads and in terms of comfort and convenience and liveabiity daily a VR4 is way ahead. For weekend fun, the 951 might have it squarely beat.

Think practical though. Take emotion out of it. Think about my needs and situation I described. The fact that the VR4 might not corner as fast and all that doesnt mean much to me. Like I said, this is to drive every day, not tear up the hills on the weekend.

So I ask you, what do you think.

89magic98

I think you said you were like 5'9", so fitting inside would not be an issue. My ex-g/f had one, I had no room whatsoever (I'm 6'4"). For me, it was too tight a fit to drive or really ride in.

The AWD would be a plus.

MichelleJD

What about needing the AWD? Sounds like you're still gonna be stuck in winter. Otherwise, it sounds logical. Heart vs. Mind kinda decision.

RMills944

The only problem I see is that if you're working on it yourself, you will have issues. Look under the hood. There's not even 1 cubic cm to spare!

89magic98

The 3000 GT he's looking at is AWD, I think.

eman930

Ok before yo udo anything take the VR4 for a ride, If you think the 951 is harsh the VR4 is 100x worse, I have test drove a couple since I work at a dealership people trade theses in all the time. The boosst of the VR4 is sweeet but it will snap your neck if you not ready, Also it is alot heavier then the 951 and its a PIA to work on, everything is WAY tight. Most that I see have lots of oil leaks and the twin intercoolers tend to get damaged from road debree. DOnt get me wrong I love the performance of the VR4 it pulls crazy hard, but if your looking for a daily car then this isnt it, Its gonna be alot more to $$$ to keep the car together and alot more trouble to work on. If you think about it, your addin 2 turbos, 2 intercoolers, 4 wheel drive, 4 wheel steering, A crazy tight engine compartment, Yes the interior is nice but they tend to creak and rattle alot. I would say keep the 951, drop the VR4 idea, get rid of the WRX and use the no car payment money to buy a nice simple beater, like a honda or toyota, No they dont have alot of power nor are they sports cars, but with a simple easy to work on 4 cycl, You will save on GAS, save on maint. and since its simple to work on your blood pressure will stay in the safe zone. Anyway you have your 930 and 951 for fun, and maybe if you cutback on having all those cars you could dirve the 951 more. Just my .02 cents

Russian Rocket

Research VR4 reliability more. They can be a handfull. Of course,It is a very nice price for that car with such a low mileage. If i were you, i'd buy it and never look back because of 930 BUT you have to drive it first and decide based on that. Those cars are very HEAVY and do not have the same road manners as WRX or 951. They have brutal power and whole bunch of electrical gizmos but there is no such thing as free lunch in the sports car world.

Matt H

9K is very reasonable. Like 944s the KBB etc is very low.

I happen to have a non VR4 (is there a car I dont own, I am starting to look like a hick, pretty soon I will be renting storage). The forum is www.3si.com and it is an okay group. Mostly younger folks.

The VR4 is a heavy **** and it feels it. My NA has been damned reliable but the PO (also a lister here) put a fortune into it and did a fantastic job maintaining it. I have records going back years. The top end on them is not very strong, the transmissions in the 5 speeds is a phenomenal pile of junk (mine is rebuilt and is griding into 2nd), they have problems with idle control and the ECUs like to crap out.

I have to be honest, knowing you level of mechanical know-how, a VR4 is probably something you should pass on. They can be extremely expensive to maintain and I dont think there is a lot of work you would be able to do on it (not knocking you, if I wanted a clean car I know where I would go).

I am now in the same position you are. I am looking to spend 5-6K cash and then buy my wife something new as well. If you can live with FWD you can get a pretty nice Prelude (new body) for the low 7Ks and those are a blast, dead solid reliable, and look pretty good.
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UDPride

Good points. I need AWD though in my daily cars. I just simply cannot do without. Even in the summer months. I relish the rain performance too much. The WRX has spoiled me in that regard, though it also doubles as the winter car.

Yeah VR4 will have maintennance issues, but my cost per mile on the 951 is way up there too. Especially since I dont drive it.

The issue I have with the 951 is I have to keep it at my grandmothers which is a half hour away so its garaged. So its not like I can just jump in and drive it. I have to physically go get the car. I could drive it daily and leave it parked outside in the driveway, but even the nicest Mitsu will never draw he same prying eyes as a Porsche. And putting 1,200 miles on it a year is the real tough one for me. If I drove it all the time I wouldnt even be asking the question.

It really comes down to -- do I need TWO weekend cars. Thats what both Porsches are.

I dont do any DIY maintenance on my cars as Matt says. So the tight engine space would be of no concern. I mean, Ive made it this far owning and paying someone else to maintain my two Porsches, would owning one Porsche and one Mitsu be worse? Nevermind no more WRX car payment.

This is all good feedback. Keep it coming.

Matt H

You know what might work for you is an Eclipse GSX. AWD, fun, and they can be had for less than 10K. You have to be careful of buying from the numerous 12 yr olds, however.

I had one before and I am thinking about buying another one. The car was a blast, it was the owners group that I couldnt stand.
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Mighty Shilling

Well, lets see... I nearly bought a 3000GT before I bought the 924S... I was looking at the new body SL model. same colour as this one. It was in great condition. I took it for a drive, and it was nice, but something was lacking, I couldn't put my finger on it... That, and the damn thing smelled funky... but it smelled like every other 3000GT I have been around... I personally much prefer the Porsche over that, not to mention, initial purchase and maintinance of the Porsche to date has been MUCH cheaper than it would have to have bought that 3kGT...

As for resources, check out www.3kgt.com it's a photo gallery, and I beleive they will even have a forum there. i've not been there in a long time, but they'll have good info for ya. Good luck UD, I'd hate to see the 951 go.

Mighty Shilling

Also, if you look at the November 2002 car of the month, that's the owner that got me into the 3kGT... Heinrich Dinsmore... He's a local auto detailer, and makes a LOT of money... He's put over $100,000.00 into it, and still lives in a wealthy neighborhood. his mobile detailing business is incredible. the cheapest car he'll detail is a BMW, and it's incredible. quoted me $400.00 just to do the paint, and of course, he did a small area on my car to get me hooked... thank god I didn't have the money at the time.

He has told me of times when he went to Vail to detail some guy's pair of Lambourghinis, and got $2,000.00 for 2 days worth of work...

Jakerx

if you want more vr4 info, one of my really good friends here has the second fastest vr4 in the nation. he flies around every now and then because people want them to work on their vr4's. and he's only 19!!!

Serge944

Those Mitsus are absolutely TERRIBLE cars. Mitsubishi has the worst reputation of any Japanese cars. Before you completely discredit my opinion, I just want to note that my extended family deals with salvaged car repair/resell and has had multiple experience with nearly every make/model available.

Whenever I mention 3000gt, they say "consider the 300zx or dodge stealth..."

Besides, the 3000gt is an overweight pig.

UDPride

Matt I saw those Eclipse cars, but I dont know how to say this easy: they are phucking ugly. If I remember some of the early ones that that caddywompus inside console too. I just dont think I could live with an Eclipse. The WRX was new and when I got mine in 02 I was one of the first in the whole city to have one, but Im starting to find myself falling into that 19yr old community and I want out. They remind me of every other 19yr old's car out there and Im trying to avoid that. The VR4 was a pretty expensive piece in the day.

Its interesting in that I think the later VR4s are fugly too when they went to the fixed headlights and rounded tail. I like the edgier early ones though.

Last time I took the 951 into the shop I spent $3100 in preventive maintenance. That was painful, but better than me having to do it.

I dont doubt the VR4 may lack driver feel. How much driver feel am I getting in my 951 however if Im driving it 1200 miles a year. Im looking for fast and comfortable (creature comforts, the upscale feel). With AWD.

Lets assume this VR4 is indeed a cherry. Supposedly the orignal owner is selling it. Considering the miles and condition he purports, I have to assume he has some money as he has other cars to get fetch the groceries. If its the cats meow, does this move make sense? Is the price very enticing? The only feedback I have from the guy is "nicest and cleanest youll ever see."

I dont think some of you are listening to me though. I dont care in ANY way how this car performs in relation to the 951. NOT ONE IOTA. I already realize its a heavy car. My mothers 86 Supra was a heavy car and was not suprt fast (not turbo), but it made for a GREAT car to get around in. Very plush, great seats, and just a fun car. The VR4 is pretty dang fast though for a 91 Mitsu. But this is for getting to work and back. The fact that 951 people might be able to overtake me on a country road I could honestly give a ****. This car would not be used for that.

Theres a point where your pocketbok and sensibility must overtake your own love for something to appease your daily needs. Im trying to figure out if this option on THIS car assuming it was showroom condition (not everyone elses troubled 95,000 mile beat up VR4) may be a good choice.