WRX's are fast [my 3.2 82 911 vs 2002 WRX]
05-13-2003, 12:38 PM
#106
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by UDPride:
<strong>I would say from 0-60 my WRX is as quick as my modded 951 on a good day. Heres the catch though. From 30-120mph, my 951 will leave the WRX back at ranch picking its nose. You can just stick a 951 in third gear and ride it until the sun goes down. You just keep going and going.
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I like both cars. WRX is a good commuter car and car to traverse the rain and snow. In the rain it will make everybody seem like in slow motion.
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Thats fine by me as long as it gets me to and from work every day, but it doesnt have 1/2 the personality and connectedness of a 951. A 951 are redline is one beautiful symphony of Zuffenhausens finest, just like the symphony from a 911 or 930.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I have both a 1986 951 and a 2002 WRX as well and fully back you up on all your comments.
The WRX is a nice quick daily driver which is excellent for both city and highway driving. One thing the WRX has going for it is the pretty much anonymuous styling - you can drive fast without attracting unwanted attention.
The 951 is something special. Getting from the 951 straight into the WRX - it makes it feel like a bus...and the quality of materials and fit is not even close (17 years on).
/Kees
<strong>I would say from 0-60 my WRX is as quick as my modded 951 on a good day. Heres the catch though. From 30-120mph, my 951 will leave the WRX back at ranch picking its nose. You can just stick a 951 in third gear and ride it until the sun goes down. You just keep going and going.
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I like both cars. WRX is a good commuter car and car to traverse the rain and snow. In the rain it will make everybody seem like in slow motion.
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Thats fine by me as long as it gets me to and from work every day, but it doesnt have 1/2 the personality and connectedness of a 951. A 951 are redline is one beautiful symphony of Zuffenhausens finest, just like the symphony from a 911 or 930.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I have both a 1986 951 and a 2002 WRX as well and fully back you up on all your comments.
The WRX is a nice quick daily driver which is excellent for both city and highway driving. One thing the WRX has going for it is the pretty much anonymuous styling - you can drive fast without attracting unwanted attention.
The 951 is something special. Getting from the 951 straight into the WRX - it makes it feel like a bus...and the quality of materials and fit is not even close (17 years on).
/Kees
05-15-2003, 12:52 AM
#108
Instructor
Wow, am I ever getting in on this late. I couldn't let this slide:
At an autox or a rally event the stock WRX brakes are fine, but at a track like watkins or something they would fade after the first turn without cross drilling if you drive it right...wouldn't be fun at all. I'm guessing that track brake pads would help a lot but I haven't played with that. I did a pretty hard stop from 100 a couple days ago, got out, and the rotors were a deep purple . I plan on either cross drilling them or replacing the brakes at some point...that is a known weak point on the WRX.
Don't cross drill them - plenty of evidence why not. Basically, self-cross drilling is pretty much bling only. Warning - these are HUGE threads from back in time, and not for the easily offended.
<a href="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75281&highlight=cross+drilled" target="_blank">http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75281&highlight=cross+drilled</a>
<a href="http://www.altimas.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32327&pagenumber=1" target="_blank">http://www.altimas.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32327&pagenumber=1</a>
<a href="http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2002&highlight=altima+cross+drilled" target="_blank">http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2002&highlight=altima+cross+drilled</a>
In summary - don't drill your own. Cast in holes may be ok. Slotted will probably do everything drilling will. Upgrade your pad material and fluid. Get air ducting onto the rotors. If this isn't enough, you need BIGGER rotors (wider, more diameter, whichever). I know there are plenty of cars which come with factory drilled rotors (eg 930 - actually cast holes), but that's not the point.
jet911 - you need to look at apples to apples:
No WRX will ever compare, no matter how hard you want too
What about if it was maintained like a Porsche - generally with money less of an object than quality of outcome? In other words, it was maintained like a $70k new car, or even simply like a $25k car, regardless of its market value?
Now where is this 17 year old Subaru that is not a pile of bolts and nuts?
17 years ago they made crap cars - is it not concievable that this might have changed in the last two decades? There are plenty of 5-10 year old, 100k mile plus WRXs here (New Zealand) which still look and run fine, despite being owned by aggressive owners.
At an autox or a rally event the stock WRX brakes are fine, but at a track like watkins or something they would fade after the first turn without cross drilling if you drive it right...wouldn't be fun at all. I'm guessing that track brake pads would help a lot but I haven't played with that. I did a pretty hard stop from 100 a couple days ago, got out, and the rotors were a deep purple . I plan on either cross drilling them or replacing the brakes at some point...that is a known weak point on the WRX.
Don't cross drill them - plenty of evidence why not. Basically, self-cross drilling is pretty much bling only. Warning - these are HUGE threads from back in time, and not for the easily offended.
<a href="http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75281&highlight=cross+drilled" target="_blank">http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75281&highlight=cross+drilled</a>
<a href="http://www.altimas.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32327&pagenumber=1" target="_blank">http://www.altimas.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32327&pagenumber=1</a>
<a href="http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2002&highlight=altima+cross+drilled" target="_blank">http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2002&highlight=altima+cross+drilled</a>
In summary - don't drill your own. Cast in holes may be ok. Slotted will probably do everything drilling will. Upgrade your pad material and fluid. Get air ducting onto the rotors. If this isn't enough, you need BIGGER rotors (wider, more diameter, whichever). I know there are plenty of cars which come with factory drilled rotors (eg 930 - actually cast holes), but that's not the point.
jet911 - you need to look at apples to apples:
No WRX will ever compare, no matter how hard you want too
What about if it was maintained like a Porsche - generally with money less of an object than quality of outcome? In other words, it was maintained like a $70k new car, or even simply like a $25k car, regardless of its market value?
Now where is this 17 year old Subaru that is not a pile of bolts and nuts?
17 years ago they made crap cars - is it not concievable that this might have changed in the last two decades? There are plenty of 5-10 year old, 100k mile plus WRXs here (New Zealand) which still look and run fine, despite being owned by aggressive owners.
05-15-2003, 03:00 PM
#109
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another member with an open mind...thanks CamB.
I was considering cross drilling the stock rotors because my mechanic did it on his turbo legacy and they've worked great for years. He has another set he uses that aren't drilled in the winter to avoid cracking. I know this is the cheap way to go...but his brakes don't fade under hard driving like mine.
A friend of mine just put the 4pots on his wrx so i'm gonna try and weasel a test drive and see if that'll satisfy me...they're not too costly at 500 bucks and they'll fit under my wheels since I run 17's and 16" 6spoke RS wheels (the 4 pots do not fit under 16" WRX wheels).
I loved the auction comment whoever that was...
"Also, where was the last auction that a Subaru was auctioned off for $150K" <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> you've resorted to...ours cost more so they must be better...but who am i to argue...Oakley's taken a huge market share using that rationale because market research has shown that people like yourself would stop buying if they dropped their prices. A wrx is a $22,000 car...so it will never auction for $150,000 unless it has some added value from a famous owner or something...but what's your point...that a car that costs 22k will never reverse the depreciation process and reach a value of over 6X its initial cost? If so...boy I guess you got me there
I was considering cross drilling the stock rotors because my mechanic did it on his turbo legacy and they've worked great for years. He has another set he uses that aren't drilled in the winter to avoid cracking. I know this is the cheap way to go...but his brakes don't fade under hard driving like mine.
A friend of mine just put the 4pots on his wrx so i'm gonna try and weasel a test drive and see if that'll satisfy me...they're not too costly at 500 bucks and they'll fit under my wheels since I run 17's and 16" 6spoke RS wheels (the 4 pots do not fit under 16" WRX wheels).
I loved the auction comment whoever that was...
"Also, where was the last auction that a Subaru was auctioned off for $150K" <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> you've resorted to...ours cost more so they must be better...but who am i to argue...Oakley's taken a huge market share using that rationale because market research has shown that people like yourself would stop buying if they dropped their prices. A wrx is a $22,000 car...so it will never auction for $150,000 unless it has some added value from a famous owner or something...but what's your point...that a car that costs 22k will never reverse the depreciation process and reach a value of over 6X its initial cost? If so...boy I guess you got me there
05-16-2003, 02:49 AM
#111
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Just one comment....it is a rather ill conceived statement that a WRX will not be around in twenty years, but a Porsche will... are we forgetting about all the Porsche's that have already been scrapped due to excessive rust?
Think about the fact that a large number of 993's have already had to have their door straps rewelded on given that they have fallen off (not from excessive use, but from ridiculously weak spot welds), think about the squeaking window frames of early generation 993's, think about all those failed power steering racks in 993s, think about the failure of the dual mass clutch on most early model 964s, think about the rust bubbles that we are still all fighting on our post galvanised 911's.....
It is a simple fact that there are more "top condition" Porsche's on the road today as compared with Japanese cars because they have by and large been owned and maintained by enthusiasts most of their lives.
By comparison, most early model Japanese cars were really just cars getting people from point A to B, not owned by enthusiasts, and hence not cared for nor "restored".
Just grab a look at some Japanese car collections today, and have a look at a first generation Skyline GTR or Mazda RX coupe...that has been restored....guess what, its just as tight as any same generation 911 that has had the same care and attention lavished on it.
At the end of the day a significant portion of a cars life span will come down to maintenance, no matter whether it was made in the former Soviet Union, Japan, Korea, Chile, India East Germany etc.... pass a well cared for 911 to a non car enthusiast to use on a daily basis, and I am betting it may not last quite as well as so many of you purport...so please stop with all this chidish "my car will last longer than your's" stuff. If a WRX is faster than a Porsche, that's great. Are we, the owners of Porsche's trying to cover up for some inadequacy by pushing this issue of logevity? Each to their own....
PEACE
Think about the fact that a large number of 993's have already had to have their door straps rewelded on given that they have fallen off (not from excessive use, but from ridiculously weak spot welds), think about the squeaking window frames of early generation 993's, think about all those failed power steering racks in 993s, think about the failure of the dual mass clutch on most early model 964s, think about the rust bubbles that we are still all fighting on our post galvanised 911's.....
It is a simple fact that there are more "top condition" Porsche's on the road today as compared with Japanese cars because they have by and large been owned and maintained by enthusiasts most of their lives.
By comparison, most early model Japanese cars were really just cars getting people from point A to B, not owned by enthusiasts, and hence not cared for nor "restored".
Just grab a look at some Japanese car collections today, and have a look at a first generation Skyline GTR or Mazda RX coupe...that has been restored....guess what, its just as tight as any same generation 911 that has had the same care and attention lavished on it.
At the end of the day a significant portion of a cars life span will come down to maintenance, no matter whether it was made in the former Soviet Union, Japan, Korea, Chile, India East Germany etc.... pass a well cared for 911 to a non car enthusiast to use on a daily basis, and I am betting it may not last quite as well as so many of you purport...so please stop with all this chidish "my car will last longer than your's" stuff. If a WRX is faster than a Porsche, that's great. Are we, the owners of Porsche's trying to cover up for some inadequacy by pushing this issue of logevity? Each to their own....
PEACE
05-16-2003, 02:54 PM
#113
I can't believe this thing lasted so damn long, we disagree, get over it. That being said, I am still posting . . .
Something interesting to ponder, while sleeper was espousing the WRX, its hopped-up brother, the STi, is getting its clocked cleaned by an "underpowered" Mitsu EVO VIII in EVERY comparison test done to date. Read the comments on why, the car just does not have ALL the pieces it takes to be a legend, SOME, not ALL. A Porshce has all the pieces.
If you have 20k to spend and need a daily driver, buy a WRX, if you have 20k to spend and want to have a "driving experience" every time you get in it, by an old Porsche.
Something interesting to ponder, while sleeper was espousing the WRX, its hopped-up brother, the STi, is getting its clocked cleaned by an "underpowered" Mitsu EVO VIII in EVERY comparison test done to date. Read the comments on why, the car just does not have ALL the pieces it takes to be a legend, SOME, not ALL. A Porshce has all the pieces.
If you have 20k to spend and need a daily driver, buy a WRX, if you have 20k to spend and want to have a "driving experience" every time you get in it, by an old Porsche.
05-16-2003, 03:35 PM
#114
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by SleeperWRX:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adscab911:
<strong>I don't think under 2 seconds is possible. Even with mega hp, there is no way to get that power to the road. The tires are limited, the tranny is limited, the clutch is limited, etc. Of course, I am not a scientist so this is definitely my opinion.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">2wd funny cars do 0-60mph in 0.5 seconds. tell them they can't get power to the road...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Now it's 0-60 feet! Thought is was 0-60mph. Oh yeah, sleeper, you do have a funny car! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by adscab911:
<strong>I don't think under 2 seconds is possible. Even with mega hp, there is no way to get that power to the road. The tires are limited, the tranny is limited, the clutch is limited, etc. Of course, I am not a scientist so this is definitely my opinion.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">2wd funny cars do 0-60mph in 0.5 seconds. tell them they can't get power to the road...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Now it's 0-60 feet! Thought is was 0-60mph. Oh yeah, sleeper, you do have a funny car! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
05-16-2003, 04:08 PM
#115
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"> If you have 20k to spend and need a daily driver, buy a WRX, if you have 20k to spend and want to have a "driving experience" every time you get in it, by an old Porsche. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Actually, try about $30k for the WRX or the Lancer EVO!
-Sean
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05-16-2003, 04:29 PM
#116
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Speaking of fast cars, have you seen the latest R&T with the luxo sedan comparisons? The Audi RS6 and the Mercedes E55 are incredible machines. 0-60mph in around 4 seconds, German workmanship and room for 4 or 5. All for around $80K. Quicker than a 360 Modena, according to R&T. Heck, that's right up there with the 996TT!
05-16-2003, 05:10 PM
#117
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I have to make a comment about japanese motors that make big horsepower. Carlos has a weedeater that made 1099hp on the dyno. He is still looking for that 1hp on the dyno. Now thats big power per cubic inch if you ask me...
George
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05-16-2003, 05:15 PM
#118
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Roamer:
<strong>
If you have 20k to spend and need a daily driver, buy a WRX, if you have 20k to spend and want to have a "driving experience" every time you get in it, by an old Porsche.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Each to their own....depends on the definition of a driving experience. The 911 has always required skill to handle at the limit, the older 911's reaching that limit far sooner than, say a 996 with PCS and 4wd.
Having said that, try driving a WRX at the limit (which is extremely high), and I guarantee you that is also a driving experience. Feedback, feel etc is well and truly excellent. Its just that the limit is so much harder to reach given all the technology in it.
Beauty, ahhh, thats something different again...in my case I have found love in Porsche's. I am talking 911S, 911RS 2.7, 911 3.2 speedster, 964, 993...unfortunately few of the 996's appeal to me (exception 996 C4s, turbo and GT2). But go put my beloved 993 next to a 360 Modena, and I will find absolute beauty in the low slung purposeful lines of that...its just that I find the 993 so much more of a daily driver, which compels me to want to hold onto it till the day I drop dead
...so does that mean now that the Porsche is a daily driver, and the Ferrari more of a "driving experience"? Of course not....just that the Porsche offers a more practical driving experience...
Now back to the WRX...I truly respect that car, on a tight track it will whip my *** off in my 993. Can't say that I will ever buy one...the look is just not me....but does that mean I will slag it off? Absolutely not....just a couple of days ago came up along side an STi at the lights...owner and his girlfriend sitting there waiting for the green light. I pull up alongside in the 993....I smile and give him and his car the thumbs up...he and his girlfriend happy as anything (gotta admit that the Porsche always looks faster standing still), in turn acknowledge me... we fire away at the green...he cleans me up to 160kmh....190kmh he lets off.....next set of lights....he pulls up along side....thumbs up are exchanged...no one wins, no one loses, no one has a better car....we just acknowledge two cars designed along different paths to achieve the same thing- driver satisfaction/fun at different price ranges, with people with different priorities and needs...
PEACE
<strong>
If you have 20k to spend and need a daily driver, buy a WRX, if you have 20k to spend and want to have a "driving experience" every time you get in it, by an old Porsche.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Each to their own....depends on the definition of a driving experience. The 911 has always required skill to handle at the limit, the older 911's reaching that limit far sooner than, say a 996 with PCS and 4wd.
Having said that, try driving a WRX at the limit (which is extremely high), and I guarantee you that is also a driving experience. Feedback, feel etc is well and truly excellent. Its just that the limit is so much harder to reach given all the technology in it.
Beauty, ahhh, thats something different again...in my case I have found love in Porsche's. I am talking 911S, 911RS 2.7, 911 3.2 speedster, 964, 993...unfortunately few of the 996's appeal to me (exception 996 C4s, turbo and GT2). But go put my beloved 993 next to a 360 Modena, and I will find absolute beauty in the low slung purposeful lines of that...its just that I find the 993 so much more of a daily driver, which compels me to want to hold onto it till the day I drop dead
...so does that mean now that the Porsche is a daily driver, and the Ferrari more of a "driving experience"? Of course not....just that the Porsche offers a more practical driving experience...Now back to the WRX...I truly respect that car, on a tight track it will whip my *** off in my 993. Can't say that I will ever buy one...the look is just not me....but does that mean I will slag it off? Absolutely not....just a couple of days ago came up along side an STi at the lights...owner and his girlfriend sitting there waiting for the green light. I pull up alongside in the 993....I smile and give him and his car the thumbs up...he and his girlfriend happy as anything (gotta admit that the Porsche always looks faster standing still), in turn acknowledge me... we fire away at the green...he cleans me up to 160kmh....190kmh he lets off.....next set of lights....he pulls up along side....thumbs up are exchanged...no one wins, no one loses, no one has a better car....we just acknowledge two cars designed along different paths to achieve the same thing- driver satisfaction/fun at different price ranges, with people with different priorities and needs...
PEACE
05-16-2003, 05:22 PM
#119
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Interesting how some of these manufacturers can make the small econoboxes so quick but can't seem to make most of them look good. Looks of a car is of great importance to me which is the primary reason why I would never consider a WRX. The fact is that not only is it a relatively low life expectancy vehicle but it really does look like Crrrap.
05-16-2003, 06:24 PM
#120
Harold, I respectfully disagree on the experience issue.
I have driven a WRX to its limit, feels like an econobox with good tires, nothing special. It also starts to flex and seem "spongy" at the limit. Reminds me a lot of my GS-R. The Porsche will corner equally as fast when driven correctly and brake in a shorter distance. The 911 always seems rock solid, yes it will bite you if driven incorrectly, where the WRX is MUCH more forgiving, but that's what makes the driving experience superior in the Carrera, you get rewarded when you do it right.
As for feedback, it is no comparison with older 911s, my Carrera feels like a go kart while the WRX was isolated and uncommunicative in comparison.
I would be interested to see which car is quicker on a track when driven by respective experts. I am a big fan of awd and am always amazed at how quickly I can get my Audi 90 Quattro to corner on its puny 205/55's.
Lastly, while a 996 is EASIER to drive at the limit, I would take a LIGHTER 911 with an equal Power to weight ratio any day.
Maybe all this discussion is why I am supercharging my Carrera. Now I have handling and the hp to back it up! I will say it even if others won't, its hurts to be beat by an econobox, even a $30k econobox.
I have driven a WRX to its limit, feels like an econobox with good tires, nothing special. It also starts to flex and seem "spongy" at the limit. Reminds me a lot of my GS-R. The Porsche will corner equally as fast when driven correctly and brake in a shorter distance. The 911 always seems rock solid, yes it will bite you if driven incorrectly, where the WRX is MUCH more forgiving, but that's what makes the driving experience superior in the Carrera, you get rewarded when you do it right.
As for feedback, it is no comparison with older 911s, my Carrera feels like a go kart while the WRX was isolated and uncommunicative in comparison.
I would be interested to see which car is quicker on a track when driven by respective experts. I am a big fan of awd and am always amazed at how quickly I can get my Audi 90 Quattro to corner on its puny 205/55's.
Lastly, while a 996 is EASIER to drive at the limit, I would take a LIGHTER 911 with an equal Power to weight ratio any day.
Maybe all this discussion is why I am supercharging my Carrera. Now I have handling and the hp to back it up! I will say it even if others won't, its hurts to be beat by an econobox, even a $30k econobox.