WRX's are fast [my 3.2 82 911 vs 2002 WRX]
05-08-2003, 07:53 PM
#46
I actually like the WRX also, and I'm sure it would make a great year round performance car here in the Northeast.
Now Mitsubishi has come out with the EVO, which means that the other Japanese manufacturers won't be far behind, especially if the Mitsui sells well.
Bottom line, in 20 years our 911s will still be the timeless classic we all know and love today, whereas the WRX will have most probably been relegated to the scrapheap. Subaru has won World Rallye Championships, but give me a manufacturer who wins LeMans numerous times like Porsche or F1 like Ferrari. The best car Subaru ever made was the SVX, and that didn't sell. At least they were smart enough to copy the boxer concept from Porsche...
If you really want to go fast and feel at one with the road, buy a motorcycle. For about $12K, you'll wipe out 99.9% of the automobiles out there.
Just have fun and be safe......
Now Mitsubishi has come out with the EVO, which means that the other Japanese manufacturers won't be far behind, especially if the Mitsui sells well.
Bottom line, in 20 years our 911s will still be the timeless classic we all know and love today, whereas the WRX will have most probably been relegated to the scrapheap. Subaru has won World Rallye Championships, but give me a manufacturer who wins LeMans numerous times like Porsche or F1 like Ferrari. The best car Subaru ever made was the SVX, and that didn't sell. At least they were smart enough to copy the boxer concept from Porsche...
If you really want to go fast and feel at one with the road, buy a motorcycle. For about $12K, you'll wipe out 99.9% of the automobiles out there.
Just have fun and be safe......
05-08-2003, 09:03 PM
#47
I like the WRX's a lot, although I prefer the previous generation w/ the different lights and two doors. In stock form they are quick, but I was able to beat a couple of them in my brother's 86 Carrera. All he's got as far as mods is a cat bypass, flowmaster, and autothority chip. Maybe 230 hp max? One of the WRX's even had some mild mods according to the owner. I realize that they can be made very fast due to their being turbocharged.
With regard to dirty looks from porsche owners to the sport compact set, I think it has a lot to do with the constant chest puffing, etc. you get from that group. every time i'm cruising (slowly) in my 930, i get some punk whizzing by trying to race. it's not even in fun. it's like we're natural enemies or something.
the other night i raced a suped up honda civic from a dead stop (i feel embarassed bringing up stories of racing hondas, but nowadays, some of those cars are quick!). he took off pretty fast from the light and had a few lengths because i don't know how to launch my 930 w/o bogging. but when my boost came on i passed him so fast it wasn't funny. at the next light, he seemed really upset, which shocked me considering i was driving a porsche 930. i figured he hould have known my car was fast, but i guess he just thought it was some kind of dinosaur.
I was kind of disappointed that he got a jump on me at the start, so i think i'm going to have to improve my low end. maybe get some headers and SC cams.
With regard to dirty looks from porsche owners to the sport compact set, I think it has a lot to do with the constant chest puffing, etc. you get from that group. every time i'm cruising (slowly) in my 930, i get some punk whizzing by trying to race. it's not even in fun. it's like we're natural enemies or something.
the other night i raced a suped up honda civic from a dead stop (i feel embarassed bringing up stories of racing hondas, but nowadays, some of those cars are quick!). he took off pretty fast from the light and had a few lengths because i don't know how to launch my 930 w/o bogging. but when my boost came on i passed him so fast it wasn't funny. at the next light, he seemed really upset, which shocked me considering i was driving a porsche 930. i figured he hould have known my car was fast, but i guess he just thought it was some kind of dinosaur.
I was kind of disappointed that he got a jump on me at the start, so i think i'm going to have to improve my low end. maybe get some headers and SC cams.
05-08-2003, 09:57 PM
#48
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Here's the answer to a question posed in one of these replies...
02 WRX with chip and exhaust, no other mods.
vs.
89 930 w/ 40k miles and no mods. (ok, CD player added)
Here's how it goes down:
The WRX and 930 hit the throttle and my WRX buddy blows me outta the water. I mean I was standing still. Made me feel a tad sheepish except that I know what happens in third gear. My big ol' KKK turbo finally finds it's 'happy place' and begins to really make some boost. At the middle of third I'm next to him, at the top of third I'm past him, into fourth and he's falling fast...
We didn't have the road length for me to make it to 5th (love that 89 Turbo!) but the net result was undeniable. In the 'stop light gran prix' the WRX will kill even a turbo, but if your not racin' to the red light the 13+ year old turbo does a-ok.
The sad part of the story is that becuase of my little 'lag problem' the WRX has more usable horsepower for getting around a track as well. I have enough trouble just trying to keep the boost under control through the corners, much less keeping it on so it's available when I need it.
Which leads me to my next point. My car has gobs of personality, which I LOVE. It's a handful to drive to say the least and it demands more than my skills to drive it REALLY well. It is well engineered and was created for those wanting a little more than just a people transporter.
The WRX doesn't satisfy those criteria (for me). In which case it's not really all about who's faster, is it? A stock 03 Mustang SVT can blow me away off the line. But I've got a freakin' PORSCHE TURBO MAN! Regardless of how fast it is or how much better your car may be, I have MY pinnacle of German engineering in black paint and brown leather and lots of rubber, all snarly and smelling of gasoline...
Sorry, I get a little carried away. So I beat some WRX. There's about 8 gazillion 'doods' out there who want to play stop light gran prix and win. If it's not out on the street I'll bite, even though I know more times than not I'll get spanked, but it's fun either way...
(must be the moon phase or something)
Cheers!
02 WRX with chip and exhaust, no other mods.
vs.
89 930 w/ 40k miles and no mods. (ok, CD player added)
Here's how it goes down:
The WRX and 930 hit the throttle and my WRX buddy blows me outta the water. I mean I was standing still. Made me feel a tad sheepish except that I know what happens in third gear. My big ol' KKK turbo finally finds it's 'happy place' and begins to really make some boost. At the middle of third I'm next to him, at the top of third I'm past him, into fourth and he's falling fast...
We didn't have the road length for me to make it to 5th (love that 89 Turbo!) but the net result was undeniable. In the 'stop light gran prix' the WRX will kill even a turbo, but if your not racin' to the red light the 13+ year old turbo does a-ok.
The sad part of the story is that becuase of my little 'lag problem' the WRX has more usable horsepower for getting around a track as well. I have enough trouble just trying to keep the boost under control through the corners, much less keeping it on so it's available when I need it.
Which leads me to my next point. My car has gobs of personality, which I LOVE. It's a handful to drive to say the least and it demands more than my skills to drive it REALLY well. It is well engineered and was created for those wanting a little more than just a people transporter.
The WRX doesn't satisfy those criteria (for me). In which case it's not really all about who's faster, is it? A stock 03 Mustang SVT can blow me away off the line. But I've got a freakin' PORSCHE TURBO MAN! Regardless of how fast it is or how much better your car may be, I have MY pinnacle of German engineering in black paint and brown leather and lots of rubber, all snarly and smelling of gasoline...
Sorry, I get a little carried away. So I beat some WRX. There's about 8 gazillion 'doods' out there who want to play stop light gran prix and win. If it's not out on the street I'll bite, even though I know more times than not I'll get spanked, but it's fun either way...
(must be the moon phase or something)
Cheers!
05-08-2003, 10:49 PM
#49
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Wow this thread just keeps on going. It's all about what you like. Personally, I'd like to stuff these coffee can exhausts, crystal lights, ridiculous 25' wings and neon flashing rocker panels up the drivers butts. I don't mean to be biased...well yes I do...but I see far, far, far more rice burners driving fast and reckless than Porsche owners. I don't think that means P owners are arrogant or afraid to hurt their car, I think they're grown up.
Not a day goes by that I don't get some idiot wanting to race. He's got a cap pulled low over his brown, gold chains, a subwoofer that makes MY car shake, and a ratty tinny Folgers can sticking out his ***.
It's the sound, the steering, the over engineering, the quirks that make Porsches special. Theyleak, they spit, they are fickle but they are durable, and they get real, real happy around redline!
Not many cars have personality. Old Cobras did. Shelby's had gobs of personality. Old Vettes did in the 60's. Ferrari's of course do. Oh God, the old Jag E Type! But Porsche's always have had something unique from day #1. If you don't believe it, fine. It leaves more out there for us to look to buy some day.
Not a day goes by that I don't get some idiot wanting to race. He's got a cap pulled low over his brown, gold chains, a subwoofer that makes MY car shake, and a ratty tinny Folgers can sticking out his ***.
It's the sound, the steering, the over engineering, the quirks that make Porsches special. Theyleak, they spit, they are fickle but they are durable, and they get real, real happy around redline!
Not many cars have personality. Old Cobras did. Shelby's had gobs of personality. Old Vettes did in the 60's. Ferrari's of course do. Oh God, the old Jag E Type! But Porsche's always have had something unique from day #1. If you don't believe it, fine. It leaves more out there for us to look to buy some day.
05-09-2003, 12:47 AM
#50
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All this talk of stop light grand prix.. if you want to do that, just get a bike. None of these cars match up to that.
We drive these cars because we love them - Porsche or WRX, whatever.
We drive these cars because we love them - Porsche or WRX, whatever.
05-09-2003, 01:08 AM
#52
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by hoffman912:
<strong>not dawgin on your roomies car at all.. subys are cool, infact they kick *** on wrc. but this is one thing i always take into effect; how many old subys do you see. not many. why? they dont last. a porsche is quality built and will last you a long time.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Almost all scooby doos are daily drivers whereas most Porsches are toys or garage queen. Every Porsche owner I know has another car to drive around in.
<strong>not dawgin on your roomies car at all.. subys are cool, infact they kick *** on wrc. but this is one thing i always take into effect; how many old subys do you see. not many. why? they dont last. a porsche is quality built and will last you a long time.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Almost all scooby doos are daily drivers whereas most Porsches are toys or garage queen. Every Porsche owner I know has another car to drive around in.
05-09-2003, 01:22 AM
#54
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and they haven't been easy miles... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
<img src="http://darklotus.dyndns.org/the_making_of/1quarter/wrxflight1.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://darklotus.dyndns.org/the_making_of/1quarter/wrxflight1.jpg" alt=" - " />
05-09-2003, 01:28 AM
#55
Thinking outside da' bun...
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WRX owner here.
They ar ewpretty quick cars off the line. The trick is second gear is a MAJOR bog if you are not revving some fairly good RPMs. If you are tooling aroudn town and downshift into second to do whatever and hit the gas, theres a lot of lag as the engine torques over until you raise enough revs to really get behind the car and can get into an area where the turob will even spool. You can go might fast even in second gear in a WRX but from a stop light you really need to take first gear to its full length before getting into second.
The turbo lag on the WRX is not that bad. Its there no doubt, but I would consider it slightly shorter than a 951.
I would say from 0-60 my WRX is as quick as my modded 951 on a good day. Heres the catch though. From 30-120mph, my 951 will leave the WRX back at ranch picking its nose. You can just stick a 951 in third gear and ride it until the sun goes down. You just keep going and going. And when the 951 turbo kicks in, its much more rocket-powered than the more linear WRX turbo. You can feel the WRX spool coming but only in the 951 do you have to hear it coming by engine sound, then it just whacks you over the head and its party time all the way to redline baby.
I like both cars. WRX is a good commuter car and car to traverse the rain and snow. In the rain it will make everybody seem like in slow motion. But its still little more than a commuter type car to me. Its still a Subaru and not a Audi and is built like a typical Subaru. Has everything you need but certainly nothing beyond adequate tastes and textures. Thats fine by me as long as it gets me to and from work every day, but it doesnt have 1/2 the personality and connectedness of a 951. A 951 are redline is one beautiful symphony of Zuffenhausens finest, just like the symphony from a 911 or 930.
They ar ewpretty quick cars off the line. The trick is second gear is a MAJOR bog if you are not revving some fairly good RPMs. If you are tooling aroudn town and downshift into second to do whatever and hit the gas, theres a lot of lag as the engine torques over until you raise enough revs to really get behind the car and can get into an area where the turob will even spool. You can go might fast even in second gear in a WRX but from a stop light you really need to take first gear to its full length before getting into second.
The turbo lag on the WRX is not that bad. Its there no doubt, but I would consider it slightly shorter than a 951.
I would say from 0-60 my WRX is as quick as my modded 951 on a good day. Heres the catch though. From 30-120mph, my 951 will leave the WRX back at ranch picking its nose. You can just stick a 951 in third gear and ride it until the sun goes down. You just keep going and going. And when the 951 turbo kicks in, its much more rocket-powered than the more linear WRX turbo. You can feel the WRX spool coming but only in the 951 do you have to hear it coming by engine sound, then it just whacks you over the head and its party time all the way to redline baby.
I like both cars. WRX is a good commuter car and car to traverse the rain and snow. In the rain it will make everybody seem like in slow motion. But its still little more than a commuter type car to me. Its still a Subaru and not a Audi and is built like a typical Subaru. Has everything you need but certainly nothing beyond adequate tastes and textures. Thats fine by me as long as it gets me to and from work every day, but it doesnt have 1/2 the personality and connectedness of a 951. A 951 are redline is one beautiful symphony of Zuffenhausens finest, just like the symphony from a 911 or 930.
05-09-2003, 01:32 AM
#56
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put a turboxs downpipe, cat/race pipe, and midpipe on...you'll never worry about being low in 2nd again. You can cruise at 1500 rpm after swapping out the downpipe...and when you hit the gas at 3000rpm even the turbo spools immediately. It changes everything about the way the engine performs. Or for 150 bucks you can go cheap and get the HKS one that bolts to the stock midpipe...but if you own a porsche I'm guessing you'd do it the "right" way. 
05-09-2003, 03:50 AM
#57
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by hoffman912:
<strong>not dawgin on your roomies car at all.. subys are cool, infact they kick *** on wrc. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Au contraire, mon capitaine. Peugeot has been the dominant force in WRC for the past 3 years. Mitsubishi and Subaru's marketing relies on past glories and association to maintain image, a bit like Audi used to. Nothing wrong with that, though.
It's not surprising that this thread has gone on so long. Comparing WRX against a 911 is like apples to oranges or whatever other analogy you prefer. Bottom line is that there's no conclusion. Both great cars, but for very different purposes and they do it in rather different ways. I've always had a healthy respect for the WRXsimply because it can go like it does, but I'd never buy one.
I also have an MX5 which is supercharged and modded to stink. Everytime, I drive the 911 (newly acquired), I think to myself "I can sell the MX5 now". But when I drive the 5, it's still an absolutely outstanding car. Again, two different sides of the coin giving two totally opposite driving experiences.
Just me $0.02
SleeperWRX, it's good to see someone who really uses their car. Blimey, that's some hefty air you're catching! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
Puf
<strong>not dawgin on your roomies car at all.. subys are cool, infact they kick *** on wrc. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Au contraire, mon capitaine. Peugeot has been the dominant force in WRC for the past 3 years. Mitsubishi and Subaru's marketing relies on past glories and association to maintain image, a bit like Audi used to. Nothing wrong with that, though.
It's not surprising that this thread has gone on so long. Comparing WRX against a 911 is like apples to oranges or whatever other analogy you prefer. Bottom line is that there's no conclusion. Both great cars, but for very different purposes and they do it in rather different ways. I've always had a healthy respect for the WRXsimply because it can go like it does, but I'd never buy one.
I also have an MX5 which is supercharged and modded to stink. Everytime, I drive the 911 (newly acquired), I think to myself "I can sell the MX5 now". But when I drive the 5, it's still an absolutely outstanding car. Again, two different sides of the coin giving two totally opposite driving experiences.
Just me $0.02
SleeperWRX, it's good to see someone who really uses their car. Blimey, that's some hefty air you're catching! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
Puf
05-09-2003, 04:14 AM
#58
Somebody mentioned SVX. It is one of those cars I would not mind driving for a while along with a BMW M6, Alfa Romeo GTV6, Mercedes 2.5/16EVO2, any Austin Healey, etc... The SVX was way ahead of it's time and even had a flat 6. Any manufacturer can make a fast car but one whose styling isn't a result of some focus group or latest trends is refreshing. Especially from an Asian company. Subaru did it with the SVX. But the eighties was all about that with no boring retro styling but still plenty of brand identity past whatever emblem is on the car. Sadly that is gone today in the era of design studios whose staff mostly graduated from the same school. Imagine if every architect or artist learned from the same masters. And the worst part about design today is that it is seldom a case of form follows function. Just yesterday I found out that the drag coefficient on a early 90's Mercedes 500E is 0.31. I won't even get in to the Audi 100 as it still has one of the lowest coefficients today. So after swallowing all these jellybean designs all we get is a best of 0.30. Not even the old Imprezza was immune from senseless design change for the sake of change alone. It is almost as the fashion industry has hijacked the automotive industry with their ideals.
But enough on design. As far as street racing, I have never seen the point of racing any car that is widely known to be fast. And that applies to any brand. If the car isn't a sleeper, what is the point. Not that there is ever a point to an endevour which requires almost no skill. That's why kids do it, for it takes years to become good at the track. And no WRX, Carrera, 930, Mustang, Corvette is a sleeper. Now a 500E might be considered one since not many people knew about them. Especially some Renntech 7 liter 500E. Certainly not the pinple face idiot in the Honda with a coffee can exhaust and the ubiquitous "R" decal that is said to be good for 100hp. I laugh right now just thinking about that stoplight race. It makes me think about the times I surprised unsuspecting Mustang drivers while I pulled away from them in my Audi V8 Quattro at top end on deserted highways. I know someone who has had a lot of laughs at stoplight races in an old Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9. But the true sleeper is what a friend of mine has which is an Audi S4 brought up past RS4 specs. No this isn't the A4 based S4 that every highschool idiot with no sense of automotive history knows. This is the much larger 100 series based car with the last iteration of the 5 cylinder that Audi domitated rally with. Everything that Audi gathered from a decade of rallying went into that motor. Considering it has no special badging or any telltale pimp wheels, it makes for the perfect sleeper.
But enough on design. As far as street racing, I have never seen the point of racing any car that is widely known to be fast. And that applies to any brand. If the car isn't a sleeper, what is the point. Not that there is ever a point to an endevour which requires almost no skill. That's why kids do it, for it takes years to become good at the track. And no WRX, Carrera, 930, Mustang, Corvette is a sleeper. Now a 500E might be considered one since not many people knew about them. Especially some Renntech 7 liter 500E. Certainly not the pinple face idiot in the Honda with a coffee can exhaust and the ubiquitous "R" decal that is said to be good for 100hp. I laugh right now just thinking about that stoplight race. It makes me think about the times I surprised unsuspecting Mustang drivers while I pulled away from them in my Audi V8 Quattro at top end on deserted highways. I know someone who has had a lot of laughs at stoplight races in an old Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9. But the true sleeper is what a friend of mine has which is an Audi S4 brought up past RS4 specs. No this isn't the A4 based S4 that every highschool idiot with no sense of automotive history knows. This is the much larger 100 series based car with the last iteration of the 5 cylinder that Audi domitated rally with. Everything that Audi gathered from a decade of rallying went into that motor. Considering it has no special badging or any telltale pimp wheels, it makes for the perfect sleeper.
05-09-2003, 04:29 AM
#59
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Sorry, a little off-topic...
Ed Bighi, you seem to have similar taste in cars to me. I have a Audi V8 (4.2) in Europe that I use for pounding the tarmac cross-continent. Stonkingly fast and uber-comfort. Most people have no idea what that car can do on the highway Most people haven't even heard of it actually.
I'd also love to have one of the old 5 cyl. s4 or s6, or even the RS2, if I could get my hands on one. I still see it as the successor to my V8.
Anyways, back to the bickering...
Puf
Ed Bighi, you seem to have similar taste in cars to me. I have a Audi V8 (4.2) in Europe that I use for pounding the tarmac cross-continent. Stonkingly fast and uber-comfort. Most people have no idea what that car can do on the highway
Most people haven't even heard of it actually.I'd also love to have one of the old 5 cyl. s4 or s6, or even the RS2, if I could get my hands on one. I still see it as the successor to my V8.
Anyways, back to the bickering...
Puf
05-09-2003, 07:52 AM
#60
Instructor
So what does my drag car do 0-60 in? 60 foot is 1.43 on slicks and 1.51 on drag radials, 1/8 best is 6.40@115. Running car tonight if rain holds out, should see 9.5@148 or so depending on humidity.