WRX's are fast [my 3.2 82 911 vs 2002 WRX]
05-09-2003, 08:06 AM
#61
Puf, you have taste. Unfortunately, I sold my V8 due to lack of garage space. I will really miss that car. It is a very special car for many reasons, especially build quality. Audi was going through some tough times in the early nineties due to some litigation loving Americans blaming the car for their own stupidity. So to make up for it, Audi went out of their way to build cars like tanks. And it really showed in the V8, S4, S6 and RS4.
Having owned Mercedes and BMW cars, I still haven't had anything that feels as solid as that car. Only the 140 series S class feels the same. Though the 140 will not handle like the V8. Especially in snow. I also love that 928 based motor. And for the price they sell for, it is like getting a free car. Nothing approaches that level of comfort, quietness at 140mph, and safety for the price. Not to mention the exclusivity. I don't like riding the bus, so to say, when it comes to car ownership. And where I live, with a population of over three million, there are probably less than five V8's. Probably the same number of S4's. Nobody knows what it is and nobody knows what passed them. The only car that can replace the V8 is the A8. Though Audi is probably busy trying to turn the A8 into an ugly car to compete with the latest and infinetely ugly 7 series. It seems that everyone is in some sort of a race to build the uggliest car. The good new is that the prices of for the A8 in the used car market are starting to become very attractive.
I have a friend in Switzerland who has an RS4 alongside an 87 Carrera. He will not sell either. The RS4 is a cool car with the last of the 5's, Porsche big red brakes, etc... Unfortunately we can't get those in the US. So much for supposed freedom. But some day I'll probably move to Europe or some other place where one has the freedom to drive whatever he or she wants and pick one of those up. If I am lucky. Enjoy that V8 for me, because I really miss mine. And it has been less than a month since I sold it. I don't know what I will get next. It has to be something like the V8 that is fun to drive, goes well and not every other Joe without originality has. Maybe an M6 or an Alfa. As far as my 911's, I will always have one. A day without a 911, is a day half lived at best. That is something all of us that enjoy the company of the 911 know.
I hope we didn't go too far off topic, but heck, it's nice to get away from the bickering.
Having owned Mercedes and BMW cars, I still haven't had anything that feels as solid as that car. Only the 140 series S class feels the same. Though the 140 will not handle like the V8. Especially in snow. I also love that 928 based motor. And for the price they sell for, it is like getting a free car. Nothing approaches that level of comfort, quietness at 140mph, and safety for the price. Not to mention the exclusivity. I don't like riding the bus, so to say, when it comes to car ownership. And where I live, with a population of over three million, there are probably less than five V8's. Probably the same number of S4's. Nobody knows what it is and nobody knows what passed them. The only car that can replace the V8 is the A8. Though Audi is probably busy trying to turn the A8 into an ugly car to compete with the latest and infinetely ugly 7 series. It seems that everyone is in some sort of a race to build the uggliest car. The good new is that the prices of for the A8 in the used car market are starting to become very attractive.
I have a friend in Switzerland who has an RS4 alongside an 87 Carrera. He will not sell either. The RS4 is a cool car with the last of the 5's, Porsche big red brakes, etc... Unfortunately we can't get those in the US. So much for supposed freedom. But some day I'll probably move to Europe or some other place where one has the freedom to drive whatever he or she wants and pick one of those up. If I am lucky. Enjoy that V8 for me, because I really miss mine. And it has been less than a month since I sold it. I don't know what I will get next. It has to be something like the V8 that is fun to drive, goes well and not every other Joe without originality has. Maybe an M6 or an Alfa. As far as my 911's, I will always have one. A day without a 911, is a day half lived at best. That is something all of us that enjoy the company of the 911 know.
I hope we didn't go too far off topic, but heck, it's nice to get away from the bickering.
05-09-2003, 10:38 AM
#62
I recently had the opportunity to drive my 86 Carrera back-to-back with a WRX. The WRX had clear advantages in it's shift linkage, but other than that I was left relatively unimpressed. Even my Carrera targa felt stiffer, the interior materials were MUCH better and road feel was light years ahead. Braking was not even comparable, I was getting a soft pedal after one agressive run down a backroad, where the Porsche just asked for more. The WRX also did not pull as hard at speed, quick off the line, but as you approached 120 the Porsche was accelerating harder.
That being said, thw WRX is one hell of a little car for 24k, great bang for the buck. However, being a past owner of japanese cars and now fully into german (audi & porsche) there is no comparing the build quality of these cars. My 95 Audi with 157k miles felt more solid than the 3k mile subie. Take a jap car apart and you will never find yourself saying, "wow, they really went to great lenghts here". This failure to take the "extra step" that makers like Audi, Porsche, & BMW do, makes the difference in the long haul. It is also why off the showroom floor they are twice as much as the japanese vehicles.
If you want to own a car for 3-4 years, by jap, if you want 15-20, by german. And before I get flammed, yes I know everyone has had a honda, etc. that has lasted to 200k miles, however they all rattle like crazy and pieces are coming off. I have friends in new acuras who like my 157k mile audi better.
That being said, thw WRX is one hell of a little car for 24k, great bang for the buck. However, being a past owner of japanese cars and now fully into german (audi & porsche) there is no comparing the build quality of these cars. My 95 Audi with 157k miles felt more solid than the 3k mile subie. Take a jap car apart and you will never find yourself saying, "wow, they really went to great lenghts here". This failure to take the "extra step" that makers like Audi, Porsche, & BMW do, makes the difference in the long haul. It is also why off the showroom floor they are twice as much as the japanese vehicles.
If you want to own a car for 3-4 years, by jap, if you want 15-20, by german. And before I get flammed, yes I know everyone has had a honda, etc. that has lasted to 200k miles, however they all rattle like crazy and pieces are coming off. I have friends in new acuras who like my 157k mile audi better.
05-09-2003, 11:29 AM
#63
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GTR 993:
BTW some of the smart cocky looks from Porsche Drivers or whatever a lot of times it isn't the car that gives them that attitude it's the kid in the buzzing Honda etc. that continually revs next to him at lights. That can get old real fast.
<img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">It's not only P owners that deal with this. I am routinely challenged by "ricers" and "muscle-heads" while driving my Beemer. For god sakes, it's a sedan! Often times it's at a stop light or on a straight. The only time I play is when we are in an area where I can show them how fast my baby can safely handle sweepers and corners.
Being a lover of automobiles, I am usually the one snubbed when I try getting them to roll down their window to talk about their car. And, as a former owner of a Subaru AWD sedan, I can say that while I loved the car (great for my kids in winter), it began to come apart at the seams when it hit 7 years of age. Very dissapointing. Last year I sold one of my old Beemers (Euro 323I) with 235,000 miles and still looking sharp. The current owner has 250,000 plus on it and loves it. It may not be the fastest on the road but it still looks nice (it's an '84!!!), handles very well and get's him to work every day.
BTW some of the smart cocky looks from Porsche Drivers or whatever a lot of times it isn't the car that gives them that attitude it's the kid in the buzzing Honda etc. that continually revs next to him at lights. That can get old real fast.
<img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">It's not only P owners that deal with this. I am routinely challenged by "ricers" and "muscle-heads" while driving my Beemer. For god sakes, it's a sedan! Often times it's at a stop light or on a straight. The only time I play is when we are in an area where I can show them how fast my baby can safely handle sweepers and corners.
Being a lover of automobiles, I am usually the one snubbed when I try getting them to roll down their window to talk about their car. And, as a former owner of a Subaru AWD sedan, I can say that while I loved the car (great for my kids in winter), it began to come apart at the seams when it hit 7 years of age. Very dissapointing. Last year I sold one of my old Beemers (Euro 323I) with 235,000 miles and still looking sharp. The current owner has 250,000 plus on it and loves it. It may not be the fastest on the road but it still looks nice (it's an '84!!!), handles very well and get's him to work every day.
05-09-2003, 11:50 AM
#64
Ed-that was me who mentioned the SVX. Funny, I like alfas also. That's another marque with a racing heritage. If they ever manage to bring in the 4 wheel drive 250hp 156 I'd take a look at it.
05-09-2003, 02:04 PM
#66
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Roamer, flame coming! If you look at any JD Power info, they are dominated by "jap" cars.
The top tier asian cars, Toyota and Honda are very well put together. How many 1980's 4runners and accords do you see on the road? Quite a few in LA. How many Audi's? Not one. Although Audi's are certainly at the top of their game now, it wasn't always the case.
The top tier asian cars, Toyota and Honda are very well put together. How many 1980's 4runners and accords do you see on the road? Quite a few in LA. How many Audi's? Not one. Although Audi's are certainly at the top of their game now, it wasn't always the case.
05-09-2003, 06:56 PM
#68
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I need to chime in on the build quality of German cars. The overall engineering quality of my 951 is outstanding. The engine was and still is ahead of its time. Aside from that though, the interior quality and attention to detail and fit and finish is just completely subpar for a car that cost 35K more than 17yrs ago. Moonroofs that get used 15 times a year shouldnt go bad on you, A/C condensors shouldnt crap out in half of these things, stock stereos shouldnt have been so craptacular, trunks shouldnt leak even now, and so on and so forth.
I say all this with some reservation because I LOVE MY PORSCHE. But outside of the styling, engine, and a few other things, the build quality leaves something to be desired. And my car is in very good shape with few quabbles. Im speaking most about other cars and other owners. Im a fortunate one.
I remember when my mom looked at new cars in 1986. She looked at a 944NA and a Toyota Supra. Both were withi na couple thousand bucks of each other at the time. Same technology, same vintage, but that Supra was light years ahead of the Porsche in several ways outside of whats under the hood. The car had Recaros in it, a great stero that actually did something for you, fit and finish beyond approach, great ergonomics that make sense, and just a pure feel of "this car isnt going to come to pieces on me."
Im not saying I get that feeling in my Porsche. Quite the opposite. But mines in much better than average condition. Even I as a Porsche owner must say though that for even 1986, Porsche did some MAJOR nickel and diming in many areas of their cars that were just inexcusable for the price they sold for. Whats under the hood was great then and is great now and was the best built part of the car, but theres more to a car than the engine.
I feel Porsche has come a LONG ways since the 80s in terms of attention to detail and quality. Hell, Im even about to add a second Porsche to the stable so I wouldnt drive them if I didnt love them. At the same time though, they are cars with major weaknesses and sore spots like any other car out there. You just hope the good outweighs the bad. For the most part I think they do, but they have worts like everything.
I agree. Nowaways German cars are built extremely well. Porsche, Audi, and VW are putting forth some major good stuff. VW is a great story in how to go from tin cans to Audi knockoffs in about 10 short years.
I say all this with some reservation because I LOVE MY PORSCHE. But outside of the styling, engine, and a few other things, the build quality leaves something to be desired. And my car is in very good shape with few quabbles. Im speaking most about other cars and other owners. Im a fortunate one.
I remember when my mom looked at new cars in 1986. She looked at a 944NA and a Toyota Supra. Both were withi na couple thousand bucks of each other at the time. Same technology, same vintage, but that Supra was light years ahead of the Porsche in several ways outside of whats under the hood. The car had Recaros in it, a great stero that actually did something for you, fit and finish beyond approach, great ergonomics that make sense, and just a pure feel of "this car isnt going to come to pieces on me."
Im not saying I get that feeling in my Porsche. Quite the opposite. But mines in much better than average condition. Even I as a Porsche owner must say though that for even 1986, Porsche did some MAJOR nickel and diming in many areas of their cars that were just inexcusable for the price they sold for. Whats under the hood was great then and is great now and was the best built part of the car, but theres more to a car than the engine.
I feel Porsche has come a LONG ways since the 80s in terms of attention to detail and quality. Hell, Im even about to add a second Porsche to the stable so I wouldnt drive them if I didnt love them. At the same time though, they are cars with major weaknesses and sore spots like any other car out there. You just hope the good outweighs the bad. For the most part I think they do, but they have worts like everything.
I agree. Nowaways German cars are built extremely well. Porsche, Audi, and VW are putting forth some major good stuff. VW is a great story in how to go from tin cans to Audi knockoffs in about 10 short years.
05-09-2003, 07:48 PM
#69
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I actually am continually impressed with the overall quality of my 88 944 Turbo and 84 944 Race car. These are 15 and 19 year old cars yet they still fell as solid as new car sold today. Sure little stuff breaks, but I can replace all of that stuff. Heck I figure I can replace all the little stuff for the next 20-30 years and still have great car.
I am not certain I can do that with another car. They feel like they will just fall apart structrurally.
Ed's car is 23 years old and I am sure is still as solid as day 1 even after all the track flogging. Sure you need to replace wear items, but the basic chassis remains solid.
When I compare my 01 VW GTI to my 88 944 Turbo I can't help but think that my Turbo will still be good solid car long after the VW! The VW is built nothing like the 951!
I am not certain I can do that with another car. They feel like they will just fall apart structrurally.
Ed's car is 23 years old and I am sure is still as solid as day 1 even after all the track flogging. Sure you need to replace wear items, but the basic chassis remains solid.
When I compare my 01 VW GTI to my 88 944 Turbo I can't help but think that my Turbo will still be good solid car long after the VW! The VW is built nothing like the 951!
05-09-2003, 08:13 PM
#70
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I would say my moms 86 Supra was built MUCH better than my 86 951 and my 951 is in GREAT shape. Im not saying its a better car or Id rather have it, Im just saying I think the overall construction and build quality of the Supra was far superior. She sold it to a local guy a few years ago but I see it around and everything in it still works like the day it ame from the factory. No A/C overhauls. No stereo overhauls. No leaky hatch. No dashboard cracking problems. No mysterious dimming of the dashboard bulbs, etc. You just put gas and oil in it and it goes.
Im just saying for as much as I like my Porsche, I feel they nickel and dimed way too many things on the car back then when all it took would have been a little more attention to the finer details to go along with GREAT, RELIABLE, SOUNDLY ENGINEERED performance.
Im just saying for as much as I like my Porsche, I feel they nickel and dimed way too many things on the car back then when all it took would have been a little more attention to the finer details to go along with GREAT, RELIABLE, SOUNDLY ENGINEERED performance.
05-09-2003, 10:02 PM
#72
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I agree. Im not real enamored with the look of the WRX.
