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I don't see the attached picture. Of course, that saves me from the horror of a German product or design marked off in non-SI units...
Edited to add the pic.....
Yeah I give the machinist crap all the time for the imperial units, but at the end of the day that is what he is most comfortable using, and most of our tools (except the metric taps) are imperial. I guess you are really only a calculator away from knowing what our measurements are in metric.
Also I am finding that speaking in thousandths makes more sense to me than .0254mm
- I am more comfy with thousandths (due to some ancient machinist coursework), but more comfy with metric due of decades of other work...
Dude, I am a total metric guy. I hate the imperial stuff I had to get Harman to sit me down and explain the difference between tenths and tens, which I thought were interchangeable. Thankfully, I am just the visionary and the money behind this operation, and Harman is the machinist extraordinaire.
Fantastic project, which I have been following silently for a long time now.
One idle question, since I do not currently have the money to invest in this: is it theoretically possible to base a 996 GT3-style motor on these cases?
Originally Posted by JDS968
There are two systems of units...
Units for countries that have put men on the moon, and units for countries that have not put men on the moon.
The retention of Imperial, brought to you by the same people who decided to change the pronunciation of a single letter of the alphabet, and who removed the u in colour, while leaving alone the spelling of laugh, thus creating three separate long-running schisms with no tangible benefits, a master stroke of epic proportions, which deserves forum accolades forevermore.
In theory YES, but in practice NO. Yes, because a water cooled case could be made from my case by simply cutting off the fan shroud, plugging the oil return holes and a few other easy mods, but NO, because the mods I just said need to be done right. Which is why after this, I am making the GT3 / Turbo case, so no modifications will be necessary!
It occurs to me that a group this size could have significant sway with some suppliers.
i see that the Capricorn Group has 3797ccm & 3996ccm offerings marked as “coming soon”.
Crankshafts are no problem for that bunch either.
Thank you so much! Oh, I forgot to mention, I have partnered with Charles Navarro at LN Engineering to offer a ridiculously good price on pistons and cylinders for these cases! Offered only to those who preordered, this deal will be extended when your case is close to completion.
You won't have to worrry about finding quality P&Cs for this build, and you won't get them anywhere at the price I will sell them to you for. Its part of my pledge to take care of you all and do the heavy lifting on parts sourcing. It's no good supplying a case if you can't get the parts to build it into a motor!
I want to thank all of you for the amazing amount of preorders that have come in. I am humbled by the confidence you have in my little company and we are grateful for your trust. Once I sort through all the orders, I will assign the slots in the order they were received. In the mean time, I have a slew of questions about the options so I thought it best to offer an answer here. Remember, you are NOT locked in to the options you selected until your case is about to be built, there is still time to change them. The reason why we are doing preorders anyways is to be able to predict what tooling we will need to complete the production run based on people's options.
107 mm: 107mm is the stock register size if you want a 3.6 engine. This is the default configuration for the case, and corresponds to the stock 964 bore. We are working with a local parts supplier who has literally dozens of really nice used 3.6 pistons, cylinders and cranks so that these builds can be completed. I don't want you to have to scrounge up all the rest of the parts for this build, I will do it for you, and evaluate the used parts so you don't have to, and sell you a decent set of crank/pistons/cylinders that can be used to finish the build. More on this later.
109mm: 109mm is the nominal register size for a 3.8L build. The 3.8 was actually built by Porsche (and lots of aftermarket builders) as an upgrade. Normally, when you do this, you have a very thin cylinder section and not a lot of meat in the spigot. Ours are totally different, and there is much more meat than stock. You can use Mahle (or any other) 3.8 jugs, and we have also partnered with LN Engineering to create a special set of cylinders that will be 110mm case register. These are still 3.8 bore, but they have much more thickness at the cylinder bottom than a stock 109 set would have for longevity. Details soon!
Clearance for GT3 Oil Pump: If you have a stock 964 oil pump, you can use it no problem. This option is for anything larger than a stock pump. The option says GT3 pump but it could really be anything including the big billet Autoverdi pumps, etc. This is a FREE option, and basically what we do is mill the case slightly to accept the large bodied pump. Not sure if your pump will fit? Want to make sure? SEND IT TO ME and I will measure it and return it to you. This is a free service, so if in doubt take advantage of it!
O-Ring Delete: There is a lot of confusion about this option. The early 964 case had no o-ring in the cylinder spigot and as such, leaked combustion products out from the gap between the cylinder and the case. Later, Porsche adopted an o-ring cut into the case to accept a viton ring that more or less cured this problem. This problem is even worse when you go 109mm because you can't really fit a cylinder base gasket in there - although some people have with success (Singer, for example). So when in doubt, LEAVE THE O-RING IN THERE. There is no disadvantage to having it. Unless you know better, go with the O-ring. Therefore you will check NO for the O-Ring delete option.
Fasteners: What does the case come with? Case perimeter studs and nuts. We will offer ARP case through bolts and perimeter studs at some point, and you will see these on the site but they are hideously expensive even if they are the best. However, we will be contracting with a fastener supplier to make all of the necessary fasteners for the case so that you can buy them as a kit and not have to think about accumulating all the parts you need to finish the case.
Well folks, there you have it. We took 30 preorders today, meaning there are only 10 left at the $5000 price. I honestly still can't believe it. Our order pool is made up of enthusiasts and world renowned engine builders and everyone in between. Thanks Rennlist for your support, and a big thank you to those that ordered. I honestly didn't think this many would order and the faith you guys have in me is humbling.
Stay tuned for more updates on this thread as well as my site's news tab for more.
Did you miss out? Still 10 left at $5000 and those will be open to the general public TOMORROW on my website. After those 10 are gone, price goes up.
For the prototype case, we originally used an end mill to create the cylinder spigot holes. For those not brushed up on their cylinder spigot tech, here is the quick primer:
Porsche cylinder spigot holes hold the cylinders in a pretty loose slip fit. If you've ever built a Porsche engine (many of you have), you will note the cylinders can be slipped into the case and removed by hand. There is acres of clearance, and it's done that way on purpose.
Using an end mill to make the spigot hole is a simple procedure - the end mill rotates in a circular shape that is controlled by the 5 axis mill's accuracy. The hole is only as round as the machine is accurate, so we of course tested this. Using our brand new Haas UMC-1000 5 axis mill, we got circles that were pretty darned round, I'd say with about 8/10ths accuracy (.0008"). This was pretty round, but I was not impressed with the surface finish.
Wait - no one sees the insides of the cylinder spigots. Also, I just finished saying the clearance isn't super critical. Both true, but hey, we are making jewelry here so.....
I decided to upgrade our hole making ability by an order of magnitude - we are now using a D'Andrea boring head. Are you a boring head aficionado? I am :-), and D'Andrea (pronounced dan-DRAY-uh) is an Italian company that makes the Bugatti Chiron of the boring head world. Their equipment is top notch, but you pay for it. Our boring head costs over $2000 and mills perfectly round holes to .0002". It simply does not get more accurate than this, and we are shooting for the moon as far as accuracy goes.
All in furtherance of the most accurate case possible!
I love it! I'm a tool junkie so I completely understand the appeal.
Okay so improving roundness is good, and should help prevent adding stresses on the cylinders as things heat up. But now that you have better roundness and less worry about tight spots around the circumference, are you reducing those acres of clearance any?
I love it! I'm a tool junkie so I completely understand the appeal.
Okay so improving roundness is good, and should help prevent adding stresses on the cylinders as things heat up. But now that you have better roundness and less worry about tight spots around the circumference, are you reducing those acres of clearance any?
I'm not reducing the clearance because I haven't done enough study to determine what (if any) effect that reducing the clearances will have. I don't want to introduce a problem that wasn't there to begin with, if that makes sense. Having nice round holes is just the right way to do things; as always there are cheaper and easier ways to make this case but I was never interested in cheap or easy, LOL
03-12-2019, 04:54 PM
