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I am making reproduction Porsche engine cases!

 
Old 08-04-2017, 10:55 PM
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Catorce
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Default I am making reproduction Porsche engine cases!

So I just singed up for this vendor thing, but a day ago I was just an enthusiast like you. I have a few Porsches and I have been building the motors recreationally for over 20 years.

When it came time to build my 914-6 GT clone, I found it really difficult to source a 3.6 case because either they were being snapped up by Singer or other rabid enthusiasts for their builds.

I was offered burned motors, cracked cases, and all manner of cases that I would consider to be one step from the dumpster. Oh, and these cases were being offered at huge premiums to boot.

And the one time I found a serviceable case, It needed 4500 worth of machining to make that which was round round, and that which was flat, flat. There had to be a better way.


So I asked around, asked a simple question:

Who is building repro cases? I phoned several renowned engine builders including my own machinist, Walt Watson, and I got crickets. Wow, no one is building these. They have only had about 20 years to do it.

So, I decided to make my own.

I took a decent964 case and had it scanned to 50 microns, and then developed a solidworks model from the point cloud. I took that model to one of the best toolmakers in Southern California (who has tooled up many engines, and done all the tooling for companies like IPD and Polo motors) and had molds made to recast the 064 engine case.

But not just the case as the factory designed it, I wanted something better. I wanted it to be stronger, and I wanted it to be more serviceable, and I also wanted it to be more conducive to large bore spigots than any other extant case.

In short, I spent a year and a half and 200K of my own money developing this case, and I thing you guys will be very happy with the result.

Here is a pic of my mold positive master, next to the original. Mine's the pink one on the left. This is an early shot prior to detailing the mold positive.

Next post: what I did differently.
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__________________
Current cars:
70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction flat six engine cases on the planet -3.6, 2.0, 2.2, 2.7, GT3/TT
www.taorminaracingdesigns.com
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:05 PM
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The basic 964 style case is a die cast aluminum case, but it has some serious drawbacks. There were many things I wanted to correct in the new design:

Serviceability:
tear down a 911 motor all the way to the case halves and you find lots of areas that are hard to clean. If you have ever destroyed an engine on the track or bought one that died with metal in it, you will find the oil galleries are hard to access.

So what I did was specified that all aluminum plugs be replaced with AN thread hex head plugs. No drilling out plugs and making more shavings. Simply back out the AN plug and go to town cleaning out the galleries.

I also planned for threaded removable piston squirters, not staked in units. Between the removable plugs and the squirters, anyone with a can of carb cleaner can fully evacuate their oil galleries with ease.

Strength: The 964 case could use to be stronger. As the motor approaches 4.0 liters, the limits of the Mezger case rear their ugly heads, with the fretting surfaces of the main bearings becoming ovaled in high RPM use.

I decided to go with A356T6 aluminum, which is an order of magnitude stronger than the Porsche material, about 20% stronger.

The plan is to also have the cases HIP'd - Hot Isostatic Press. We take the case halves, put them in an autoclave at 30,000 PSI, and heat it to 900 degrees, which heals all the internal voids in the metal. It makes it like billet.

This should cure the weaknesses in the case.

Check out the site at www.taorminaracingdesigns.com and hit the NEWS tab for the latest pics an updates.

Will post more real soon.....
__________________
Current cars:
70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction flat six engine cases on the planet -3.6, 2.0, 2.2, 2.7, GT3/TT
www.taorminaracingdesigns.com
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:09 PM
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Default Prototype #1 RAW CASTING

Here's the first prototype casting, warts and all. We need to fix some gating issues, but overall we are pretty much there.

Remember, this is a PRE-MACHINING casting, raw, with lots of material yet to be removed by the machining process.

Oh, and it's also the first 964 case poured since the factory did it 20 some odd years ago. Did I mention made in USA???
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__________________
Current cars:
70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction flat six engine cases on the planet -3.6, 2.0, 2.2, 2.7, GT3/TT
www.taorminaracingdesigns.com
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Old 08-05-2017, 05:20 AM
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Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems
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Very nice!!!!
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Old 08-05-2017, 01:18 PM
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Thank you Steve!

I am tooling up right now for the 2.0, the 2.7, and the GT3/Turbo case as well. Goal is to sell these, street price under 5K. How much under I don't know right now since we aren't through the machining woods yet, but that is the idea.

If you are lucky enough to have a Porsche 3.6 case right now, you get to choose whether to dump money into it for machining, or just keep it for posterity and buy one of these, that will be ready to go right out of the box and widely available.

No more WTB ads, no more burned engines, cracked cases, etc.
__________________
Current cars:
70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction flat six engine cases on the planet -3.6, 2.0, 2.2, 2.7, GT3/TT
www.taorminaracingdesigns.com
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Old 08-05-2017, 02:52 PM
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Ken D
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Originally Posted by Catorce View Post
Thank you Steve!

I am tooling up right now for the 2.0, the 2.7, and the GT3/Turbo case as well. Goal is to sell these, street price under 5K. How much under I don't know right now since we aren't through the machining woods yet, but that is the idea.
That is an absolute steal! Great job, looking forward to additional detail.
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Old 08-05-2017, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken D View Post
That is an absolute steal! Great job, looking forward to additional detail.

Thanks!

For me the whole point is making the 3.6 accessible, and to another extent, replicating the magnesium cases in aluminum so anyone can have one for their builds.

I'm retired, and I don't ever need to work again. This is a labor of love and while it needs to pay for itself, I am not trying to make a killing on engine cases.

So I guess I'm the worst salesman ever because I don't need to sell a single one
__________________
Current cars:
70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction flat six engine cases on the planet -3.6, 2.0, 2.2, 2.7, GT3/TT
www.taorminaracingdesigns.com
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Old 08-05-2017, 03:44 PM
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Bravo!
​​​​​​i know we're dying to know, when do you think you'll have some ready to sell?
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Old 08-05-2017, 04:00 PM
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That's a great question, one which I forgot to talk about.

Short answer: Hoping to have 3.6 cases ready to sell this year, late fall time frame.

Longer answer: While the foundry is working on its gating issues on case half left, and preparing to pour case half right, I am taking the first casting to the machinist and it will be there on Monday. The prototype I posted got poured last week, after a year and a half of development and tool making.

The machinist has been on board for months, working on his CNC routine for the case halves. His bit will probably take a month, mainly because he has to come up with the appropriate fixtures and computer routines to produce the cases.

The work phase here is MUCH harder than what an automotive machinist does; for example when you get your old case line bored, there is already a line bore put in there by Porsche that your machinist uses as a guide. We don't have any of that.

On the flip side, once we nail the CNC routine we can literally churn out the cases with very little variation and high quality control.

Lastly, I will need to build a prototype motor out of it and drive the **** out of it. Will also be seeking some volunteers to do the same with their cars, kind of like beta testers.

I only wanted to publicize this when I was in the advanced and late phases of production; I hate vaporware and internet con men. That's another reason why I am not doing group buys at this stage nor am I soliciting people to throw money down to hold a spot. I am not financing this with your money, I am financing it with mine, and when you fork over money for your case, you'll get it within the same week.
__________________
Current cars:
70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction flat six engine cases on the planet -3.6, 2.0, 2.2, 2.7, GT3/TT
www.taorminaracingdesigns.com
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Old 08-05-2017, 04:48 PM
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r911
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Great to see you doing this!

are they pressure cast?

also, now that there will be plenty of better engine cases, will you do some better unit bodies in CF?
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Old 08-05-2017, 05:16 PM
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The thought that immediately comes to mind is of course building a 3.4 motor for the G-series 911s.

And make sure that the machinist and every vendor signs over in writing to you the rights, computer files, and commercial revenue in perpetuity.

Otherwise, they own the designs.
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Old 08-05-2017, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by r911 View Post
Great to see you doing this!

are they pressure cast?

also, now that there will be plenty of better engine cases, will you do some better unit bodies in CF?

No, they are not pressure cast, they are sand cast, like the early Porsche cases.

When I started down this road, my only goal was to make the case the BEST product out there irrespective of cost. As I interviewed foundries and tool makers the consensus I was given was that die casting (what you are calling pressure cast) was simply a cost saving measure.

Let me explain. Your normal die cast Porsche engine case is made within a metal die (mold) which is infused with pressurized aluminum to fully fill the mold. Die casting allows you to make a high volume of cases per day, in the hundreds even. Porsche made something like 60,000 964s, so you can see what they were after - volume.

My molds are good for about 10,000 cases total, because I don't forsee a huge market for these, or not like a complete run of 964s anyways.

My sand cast cases use better metal (strontium infused A356T6 aluminum) and are better built than any Porsche case out there, because the cost per case and the quantity of cases I could make was not a factor in my decision making process.

As to the CF ...not sure what you are asking here?
__________________
Current cars:
70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction flat six engine cases on the planet -3.6, 2.0, 2.2, 2.7, GT3/TT
www.taorminaracingdesigns.com
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Old 08-05-2017, 06:20 PM
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I am not a mechanic or engineer but your information was pretty straightforward and with more tribute/clone/hotrod Porsche builders you could really be onto something and I wish you the best success.
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:14 PM
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Amber Gramps
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My simpleton math is as follows. You are into this $200,000 with a price point of $5,000 each. So you've got to sell 40 cases to break even.... Is that right?

That's going to take you about 5 minutes if you get this in the hands of the right people.
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Old 08-05-2017, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by tgil View Post
I am not a mechanic or engineer but your information was pretty straightforward and with more tribute/clone/hotrod Porsche builders you could really be onto something and I wish you the best success.
Thanks so much for the kind words!
__________________
Current cars:
70 914-6 - 2.7L screamer
73 911T Carrera RS Clone, 3.6 power
75 911 Targa - RSR width 930 motor
78 928 - DEVORE CAR, 6.54L
83 911 Euro SC - 3.2 Short Stroke!
88 928S4 5 speed
02 911 Targa
04 911 40th Anniv
07 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Techart beauty
09 997 Twin Turbo 6MT - Factory Aerokit
11 Camaro SS - 6MT Z28 Spec, V7Ysi 850whp
12 McLaren 12C
17 McLaren 570S
The only reproduction flat six engine cases on the planet -3.6, 2.0, 2.2, 2.7, GT3/TT
www.taorminaracingdesigns.com
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