Porsche CEO Confirms Upcoming 718 Spyder Will Be Naturally Aspirated!
07-31-2017, 02:47 PM
#91
Ditto! Expect evolutionary updates. Likely to be better in every aspects. How much better would be debatable. Besides all the virtues Nick outlined, applicable for a Spyder, one deal-breaker for me would be forced auto rev-matching. It should maintain the status quo; that is, only in Sport Plus. I despise it with passion. So, if auto rev-matching is enforced in Sport, I will be done with Porsche! Keep the 981; and, live happily ever after! 
07-31-2017, 03:07 PM
#92
Three Wheelin'
07-31-2017, 07:31 PM
#95
07-31-2017, 11:41 PM
#98
Three Wheelin'
Correct, Nick. After you posted about it way back, I tried it; and, no dreaded rev-match. I didn't think Sport Plus offered any other advantage over Sport, in terms of handling dynamics. So, I just stay with Sport. Porsche better not mess with this setup!
08-01-2017, 12:23 AM
#99
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I'm pretty sure this has been discussed in a few threads, if not here then on the GT4 board, but I can't recall what the consensus was, if there even was one.
08-01-2017, 02:38 AM
#100
Rennlist Member
Great question!
FACTORS/FEATURES THAT WOULD MAKE ME CONSIDER THE 982
1. Lighter Weight - I'm a weight fanatic so if the new car adopts greater weight-savings measures than the 981 (e.g., more spartan interior, less sound deadening material, lighter weight components, fully manual top, etc.) and comes in lighter than the 981, that would definitely pique my curiosity, but I'm not holding my breath!
2. Sexier Appearance - If the new car is better looking than the 981, that would cause me to take a look, but this is one area where I think the new car really has its work cut out. While I don't find the 718 to be unattractive by any stretch, I do find the 981 design to be sublime. I can't imagine the 982 being a "better looking" Spyder than the 981, but who knows.
3. Smaller Numbers - If the new car was made in even more limited numbers than the 981, that would appeal to me. Again, I doubt that will be the case.
4. A Second Chance to Perfect the Build - This doesn't apply to me, but I can see where a current Spyder owner who either didn't get to spec their car or did spec it but regrets certain aspects of their build, might look at the 982 as a fresh chance to "get it right." I love my build and wouldn't change a thing (except maybe passing on Bose, which isn't a big deal), but I can see how the 982 could be a welcome "do-over" for some 981 owners, and I get that.
5. Minimal Price Increase - The more satisfied you are with your existing car, the more reluctance you have to paying significantly more for something that may be just incrementally better. A big price increase on the new car would be tough to swallow given how good the current car is.
6. Return of the Dipstick and Emergency Hand Brake - Enough said (and it will never happen)
7. 987-Style/Fully Manual Roof - Where do I sign?
[Or, for Zeus, a targa-top
]
FACTORS THAT WOULD TURN ME OFF ON THE 982 SPYDER
1. Heavier car
2. Less exclusivity/made in greater numbers
3. An exterior design that doesn't match or exceed the beauty of the 981
4. Big price jump
5. Fully automatic top
6. A car that leans more luxo than "hard core"
7. Adjustable suspension/electronic dampeners
8. More power (see below)
9. More nanny driving aids/electronics
10. Overall, a less "annalog" car than the 981
+1
I'm with you MiHi. I don't need more power and I'm not sure I want it. We all talk about the joys of hustling, say, a Miata or low-hp car through a series of bends compared to a car with more power. I'm certainly not comparing the 981 to a Miata or suggesting by any stretch that the current Spyder is down on power. I'm just expressing a concern that adding more horses to the equation may upset the apple cart re: delicate handling, move the car out of its current power-to-weight sweet spot, and provide for a less entertaining/rewarding driving experience.
FACTORS/FEATURES THAT WOULD MAKE ME CONSIDER THE 982
1. Lighter Weight - I'm a weight fanatic so if the new car adopts greater weight-savings measures than the 981 (e.g., more spartan interior, less sound deadening material, lighter weight components, fully manual top, etc.) and comes in lighter than the 981, that would definitely pique my curiosity, but I'm not holding my breath!
2. Sexier Appearance - If the new car is better looking than the 981, that would cause me to take a look, but this is one area where I think the new car really has its work cut out. While I don't find the 718 to be unattractive by any stretch, I do find the 981 design to be sublime. I can't imagine the 982 being a "better looking" Spyder than the 981, but who knows.
3. Smaller Numbers - If the new car was made in even more limited numbers than the 981, that would appeal to me. Again, I doubt that will be the case.
4. A Second Chance to Perfect the Build - This doesn't apply to me, but I can see where a current Spyder owner who either didn't get to spec their car or did spec it but regrets certain aspects of their build, might look at the 982 as a fresh chance to "get it right." I love my build and wouldn't change a thing (except maybe passing on Bose, which isn't a big deal), but I can see how the 982 could be a welcome "do-over" for some 981 owners, and I get that.
5. Minimal Price Increase - The more satisfied you are with your existing car, the more reluctance you have to paying significantly more for something that may be just incrementally better. A big price increase on the new car would be tough to swallow given how good the current car is.
6. Return of the Dipstick and Emergency Hand Brake - Enough said (and it will never happen)
7. 987-Style/Fully Manual Roof - Where do I sign?
[Or, for Zeus, a targa-top
]FACTORS THAT WOULD TURN ME OFF ON THE 982 SPYDER
1. Heavier car
2. Less exclusivity/made in greater numbers
3. An exterior design that doesn't match or exceed the beauty of the 981
4. Big price jump
5. Fully automatic top
6. A car that leans more luxo than "hard core"
7. Adjustable suspension/electronic dampeners
8. More power (see below)
9. More nanny driving aids/electronics
10. Overall, a less "annalog" car than the 981
+1
I'm with you MiHi. I don't need more power and I'm not sure I want it. We all talk about the joys of hustling, say, a Miata or low-hp car through a series of bends compared to a car with more power. I'm certainly not comparing the 981 to a Miata or suggesting by any stretch that the current Spyder is down on power. I'm just expressing a concern that adding more horses to the equation may upset the apple cart re: delicate handling, move the car out of its current power-to-weight sweet spot, and provide for a less entertaining/rewarding driving experience.
And more power for the next Spyder? I would say no, but loose some weight. More power = large engine, more weight, longer stroke length. less revvy engine etc... all things that go against the principle of a Spyder.
08-01-2017, 12:31 PM
#101
Henry, this is something that has been puzzling me. Is rev-matching really the only difference between Sport and Sport +, or does moving to Sport + result in other changes in addition to rev-matching? Is the ECU mapping different, for example? Does the throttle response seem sharper in Sport +? Does the exhaust get louder? Sometimes when I'm driving and toggle between Sport and Sport + I swear I can feel a difference (other than rev matching) in performance dynamics, but maybe I'm just imagining it. I'm curious if anyone else senses any difference.
I'm pretty sure this has been discussed in a few threads, if not here then on the GT4 board, but I can't recall what the consensus was, if there even was one.
I'm pretty sure this has been discussed in a few threads, if not here then on the GT4 board, but I can't recall what the consensus was, if there even was one.
08-01-2017, 02:28 PM
#103
Banned
Even though the Boxster manual does not have the wording, I believe PTV Plus changes to a more dynamic map when "Sport Plus" is switched on like it states in the 911 manual.
Of course rev matching can offer an advantage with handling dynamics, whether it is done by the driver or the car.
From the manual:
In "Sport Plus" mode, maximum performance is set for race-circuit-like driving:
In "Sport Plus" mode:
PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management) is automatically changed to "Chassis Normal" or "Chassis Sport" mode.
The PDK transmission switches to a sporty gear-changing map and shortens the gear shifting times when Sport mode is activated.
Gear changes take place faster.
The electronic accelerator pedal reacts sooner, and the engine is more responsive to throttle inputs. When Sport mode is switched on and the vehicle is travelling at a speed of less than 25 mph (40 km/h), this function is activated only after the driver has floored the accelerator pedal or released it briefly.
The rpm limiter characteristic is "harder".
In other words: the engine is immediately throttled when the performance limits are reached (only in manual selection mode on vehicles with PDK).
PSM (Porsche Stability Management) control is more sporty in "Sport Plus" mode. PSM interventions are later than in Normal mode.
The driver can maneuvre the vehicle with greater agility at its performance limits, without having to dispense with the assistance of PSM in emergency situations. This helps to achieve optimal lap times, particularly on race circuits with a dry road surface.
PADM changes to more sporty maps for the dynamic engine mountings and ensures a stiffer engine-to-body connection.
In "Sport" for a sporty driving style, in "Sport Plus" mode for race-circuit-like driving.
The dynamic cornering light reacts more spontaneously to steering angle changes.
The sports exhaust system is be switched to a sound-optimised mode, but can be switched off separately via the button.
The Auto Start Stop function and coasting mode are deactivated.
08-02-2017, 01:02 PM
#104
Three Wheelin'
The effect on cooling was inconclusive, I think. There were theories either way.
According to the manual it effects handling dynamic's, in the case of the Spyder PADM and PSM. I think I can feel it but for street driving not sure one could quantify an "advantage". I have driven a GT4 on the track at open passing speeds and definitely preferred sports plus.
.....................
The Auto Start Stop function and coasting mode are deactivated.
.....................
The Auto Start Stop function and coasting mode are deactivated.
08-02-2017, 01:55 PM
#105
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See Pete Stout's post #38 in this GT4 thread about this very issue, which suggests that, indeed, cooling is affected, at least in the GT4:
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9449...rt-mode-3.html
Thought this whole thing was more internet lore, until I tried it repeatedly in situations where the car and weather were steady state. Sure enough, I see 30-40° coolant temp drops and marked oil temp drops like clockwork almost immediately after hitting the Sport button. Every time, and I've tried it a lot of times now. And I can watch the coolant temp tumble within seconds of hitting the button, first a couple of degrees, then a few, and then a lot more—all within a couple or a few minutes even in hot weather.
So I ran the car hard in hot weather on a collection of back roads without touching the Sport button. Initially, it was running hot (220+° coolant/230° oil) as it always does, but after a while of hard running, the coolant was under 200 and the oil was at 210°.
So I am convinced this is more than internet lore...
Thanks, Bob. A good reminder that resort to the manual is always a good starting point and a great refresher!
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9449...rt-mode-3.html
Thought this whole thing was more internet lore, until I tried it repeatedly in situations where the car and weather were steady state. Sure enough, I see 30-40° coolant temp drops and marked oil temp drops like clockwork almost immediately after hitting the Sport button. Every time, and I've tried it a lot of times now. And I can watch the coolant temp tumble within seconds of hitting the button, first a couple of degrees, then a few, and then a lot more—all within a couple or a few minutes even in hot weather.
So I ran the car hard in hot weather on a collection of back roads without touching the Sport button. Initially, it was running hot (220+° coolant/230° oil) as it always does, but after a while of hard running, the coolant was under 200 and the oil was at 210°.
So I am convinced this is more than internet lore...
Thanks, Bob. A good reminder that resort to the manual is always a good starting point and a great refresher!