mrd_spy

imo you asked a daft question, I have been doing this for 35 years , people asking what PSI to use is totally pointless and has nothing to do with the 4RS short comings.

I am not fun at parties you are right :-) I don't do small talk or want to show any interest what some one I will never see again does for a living. And I am def not talking cars at any party as the ave pubic are clueless.
In hindsite I would have got a 991.2 RS pre opf car for the few tracks days I goto, but atm you take a £25k bath on the 4RS in the UK atm so it's staying for now. While I decide what to do suspension wise.

I also find the 4RS too loud inside, I got a new digital DB meter this week, now it must be out as I got 116DB in the car ! I did a few laps at my last track day and forgot my ear plugs that session, the cars horrible to do 10 laps in without ear plugs again imo. I did buy a 5kg 30db reducing slab of pro stuff, I cut it to size and put it over the engine, it made no differance lol. the noise must come from the 2 arms inside the car. not the engine cover.
next step is to wrap the two inside induction tubes, see if that will take it down 3 or 4 DB. I like the sound sub 7k revs just not when on it. I can see why many are moved on in the UK after a short time and sales now demanding £15k under list price, while the USA guys are still happy to pay overs !

Ksdaoski

One, my question was not directed towards you.
Two, you will notice a normal response from the person the question was directed towards.
Three, I'm shocked. Have a jolly great day!

mrd_spy

LOL yes TRZ should not be offering views on the 4RS in any way shape or form, let alone any track stuff on it. Taffy is quite new to track days. :-), I am sure he don't mind me saying that, I have been doing them 35 years so can back up what I feel and what I expect to feel just down to owning about 120 cars now and doing many track days. these days it's for fun and not times but I do find the 4RS frustrating for an RS product vs rose tinted owners saying how amazing it is.
If I wanted times I would have got a 992 GT3 MR 2nd hand. we have a few for sale in the UK and they are great value 2nd hand if you want a full MR kitted out 992.
I also bet "Manifold" will move his 4RS pretty fast :-) any wagers

RDCR

Mix a some "Dunning-Kruger effect" with a healthy helping of condescension and you've got the recipe for a spirited Rennlist discussion.

My thought: Horses for courses, the 2 tracks I frequent, Laguna & Sonoma, have both been repaved.

Manifold

Why do you say that?

I just got back from a long drive in the 4RS, getting close to 800 miles on it, almost finished break in.

On the road, I like the car, but I don't love it. This isn't an objective assessment of the car, just my subjective experience of it. To me, the car feels like an improved GT4, and therefore still has the limitations of a Cayman. It doesn't feel to me like a true RS in the sense of feeling light, sharp, playful, getting better and better as you approach 10/10ths. It has a characterful soundtrack, but sound isn't a substitute for vehicle dynamics.

What I really need to do is to try this car on track. Regardless of how much I wind up enjoying on track or not, the lap time capability of the car is undeniable, and from that standpoint I think it's worth the money.

Taffy66

The 4RS has turned out to be the most polarising GT Porsche in recent times. You either get it or you don’t. Nothing wrong with this as we all like different things. I’ve only been doing track days for about six years in a few different Porsches so a relative novice compared to some self-proclaimed experts on here lol.
However I did 15 track days in my 2019 991 RS WP and 6 and counting in my 4RS so feel pretty qualified to express a balanced opinion.
The 4 RS will never be as fast or composed around a track compared to the 991RS simply because it has much less tyre contact patch, no multi link rear suspension, no rear axle steering, no trick e diff and much less downforce but it was never meant to be.
It is however more fun to drive hard and also more immersive. Some people prefer cars which have a lot of nannies on track to keep them feeling safe. I’ve been held up on track a few times by slower drivers in 992GT3s even though the drivers are in a much more advanced car.
Most people know when they gel with a car and if some don’t then my advice is to simply sell it and move on to something easier to drive. Spouting endlessly on forums with negativity is only white noise and helps no one imo

Taffy66

ETA I wasn’t referring to you Manifold in my last comment just a generalisation

vantage

I find Manifold's comments really helpful, especially since he actually owns most of the recent GT cars and tracks them. Even if you don't agree, there are nuggets there to help others find the right single car for them.

I can't afford to have all of them, but totally understand why that makes sense. Barolo is my favorite wine, but it's not something I could drink every day (like Burgundy). Cars are like that.

alcc

Spot on. Every car has shortcomings. When you are lucky enough to gel with a car (or, ahem, a woman), you gel. You don't over-analyze it. You can't even articulate why. You gladly (foolishly?) overlook the shortcomings. Or they become "endearing."

How else to explain the entire 911 phenomenon?

The Japanese gets it: wabi sabi.

Manifold

I think liking a car can lie on a spectrum ranging from hate it, don't like it, neutral, like it, to love it.

On the road, I'm currently in the like it category for the 4RS. If 4RS was the only sports car I ever owned, it would probably love it, but comparison with other cars moves it to like it for me.

After I drove the 4RS today, I took the 992 GT3 for a drive, just to compare them back to back. I enjoyed driving the GT3 a lot more, and I'm in the love it category for that car. The GT3 does feel easier to drive, but not because of 'nannies'; it has a sharper front end, it communicates weight transfer more clearly, it's less prone to getting flustered, it's more playful, and it gives a clearer sense of how close to the limit is. I find that the GT3 is more dynamic, and therefore more fun to drive.

The track is a different story though. On track, I don't really love the 992 GT3, and I liked my old 991.1 GT3 more. I also like the 991.2 3RS a lot more on track than the 992 GT3. But the 992 GT3 may be better with some work on the setup.

VRShader

I think the debate is really about the mid engine platform striking above their weight and eroding 911 people’s sense of superiority.

I drove them side by side on track. In my mind I have zero doubt the mid engine platform is a better car for me. GT3 might be faster around a track but comparing to the mid engines it is just too refined and too composed. My time is better in GT3 but I feel faster in 4RS. 4RS feels smaller and tighter, screams harder, slips more often but more predictable. Giving me a much more sense of “driving hard” comparing to GT3.

I get some people prefer the smooth and composed experience of GT3 and that is admirable. But it doesn’t mean 4RS is worse for what it is.

These are after all not actually race cars. Just road cars that can be tracked. We are mostly novice, not professional drivers. Feel behind the wheel is much more important than arbitrary track time.

Manifold

To be clear, my comparison of the 4RS and 992 GT3 (so far) is on the road. Contrary to what most people report, I find the GT3 to be the more lively, dynamic, and engaging of the two cars, whereas, to me, the 4RS feels a bit too stable and planted and inert until it's pushed quite hard. The GT3 also feels punchier and a bit lighter. I don't know how to explain why my perception differs from most people, but I offer it here as a data point.

VRShader

that actually makes a lot of sense if we are comparing different usage. On the cooldown laps I don’t feel the 4RS to be different than a regular GT4 or even 4.0. So yeah it is kinda meh.

GT3 has a lighter front end which might translate to being more lively on road speed? With the weight on the rear, the weight transfer is also more obvious

Manifold

Yes, I think that explanation is correct for the GT3. Plus, the GT3 has the double wishbones in front, better rear suspension, and RWS.

I can't really predict whether I'll like the GT3 or 4RS more on track. If the 4RS wins, it's a keeper.

Taffy66

Very good post which aligns with my own experience. The 4​​​RS is like the devil on your shoulder egging you on bringing out the long forgotten sense of childhood fun and joy . The 992GT3 feels much more mature and grownup when it does the same job. Different horses for different courses and all that.