GT4 RS Driving Impressions
11-11-2022, 02:06 PM
#46
Instructor
I live in VA and VIR is my home track, lol. The have an event there right after they run all the cars, and so all the cars were there and they had just finished the day before the timed lightning lap event that they have for the public.
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11-11-2022, 02:13 PM
#47
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I find a lot of the comments in here amusing. When I got my GT4RS I assumed I would get a car that sounded better than my GT3 and was more fun than my GT3, but would not be as fast as my GT3. Now that I own the car I see the only thing I was wrong about was the fast part. It is more fun, it does sound better, and it's just as fast. Car and Driver just did their lightning lap at VIR and the 4RS put down the same time as the 992 GT3. Not the 991.2, the 992. Considering no rear wheel steering, smaller tires, and inferior suspension, it's just as fast around one of the best tracks in America. I think the people comparing videos on the ring which is a very bumpy track, or those that live in parts of Europe with terrible B roads could notice some sort of difference. But for the professional at VIR putting down lap times he said they felt very similar and they put down the same lap time. So if I had to choose (which I already did), I would have my 4RS over a 992 GT3 any day of the week, and I'll keep my 991.2 manual GT3 for road service when I want a manual to row through the gears on. And I have driven the 992 GT3 around a track as well, so it's not like I'm typing at my computer screen with no experience of one or multiple cars like some.
Last edited by GrantG; 11-11-2022 at 02:17 PM.
11-11-2022, 02:19 PM
#48
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Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Lightning Lap 2022: The Hottest Cars on America's Toughest Track (caranddriver.com)
11-11-2022, 05:07 PM
#49
I love my GT4 and would love a GT4RS. BUT im realistic and practical. Just because you throw a GT3 engine into a GT4 doesnt fix or do anything about the obvious problems, flaws and short comings of this platform... only proper thoughtful aftermarket modifications can you begin to address the Cayman Complex. But hey who am I to tell you want you like or dont like. Some people are perfectly happy eating hot dogs and meatloaf all day long...I prefer a more balanced diet and a more balanced car.
https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-...-7-17-btg.html
Sure, the rear engined 911 has a multilink suspension to mitigate it’s weight bias. The mid engine 718 has a more balanced chassis and a more basic suspension.. The 718 can feel a bit more lively especially under hard braking whereas the 991/992 can sometimes feel big and refined. Both are brilliant sports cars that provide and amazing driving experience. This hyperbole that the GT4 has subpar handling is absolute nonsense. It’s performance metrics convincingly disprove that as do all the professional drivers that rave about it’s handling.
Maybe some people prefer a more anodyne handling car that resembles a video game. Is Nissan still making the GTR.
Last edited by Underblu; 11-11-2022 at 05:09 PM.
11-11-2022, 05:12 PM
#50
I find a lot of the comments in here amusing. When I got my GT4RS I assumed I would get a car that sounded better than my GT3 and was more fun than my GT3, but would not be as fast as my GT3. Now that I own the car I see the only thing I was wrong about was the fast part. It is more fun, it does sound better, and it's just as fast. Car and Driver just did their lightning lap at VIR and the 4RS put down the same time as the 992 GT3. Not the 991.2, the 992. Considering no rear wheel steering, smaller tires, and inferior suspension, it's just as fast around one of the best tracks in America. I think the people comparing videos on the ring which is a very bumpy track, or those that live in parts of Europe with terrible B roads could notice some sort of difference. But for the professional at VIR putting down lap times he said they felt very similar and they put down the same lap time. So if I had to choose (which I already did), I would have my 4RS over a 992 GT3 any day of the week, and I'll keep my 991.2 manual GT3 for road service when I want a manual to row through the gears on. And I have driven the 992 GT3 around a track as well, so it's not like I'm typing at my computer screen with no experience of one or multiple cars like some.
I completely agree.
11-11-2022, 05:33 PM
#51
Why we always end up comparing 911 vs Cayman and pricing? It is what, it is. It's not supposed to be on par with GT3 or GT3RS.
The 98x platform has been out a long time so obviously it's no 992. Also, the mid-engine platform was designed to cut cost while provide and good entry into Porsche sports cars.
These mentioned "design flaws" are not flaws, are just the way Porsche design it to save on cost and provide a product that slotted below the 911, not next to it...want more? You can always get a GT3/GT3RS.
As for pricing....not everything is performance. These car are not cheap but after many years racing cars and working on the auto industry I haven't found many cars that are so well rounded in offering so many things with incredible reliability even with track use, not to mention great resale value.
It's not everyone's cup of tea, you just have to be realistic what you are buying.
Me personally, I love how the 992 GT3 drives on track. It's the superior car, but when it was time to decide between 992 GT3 or GT4RS other things also weighted on my decision, which may not be the same things other people value.
The 98x platform has been out a long time so obviously it's no 992. Also, the mid-engine platform was designed to cut cost while provide and good entry into Porsche sports cars.
These mentioned "design flaws" are not flaws, are just the way Porsche design it to save on cost and provide a product that slotted below the 911, not next to it...want more? You can always get a GT3/GT3RS.
As for pricing....not everything is performance. These car are not cheap but after many years racing cars and working on the auto industry I haven't found many cars that are so well rounded in offering so many things with incredible reliability even with track use, not to mention great resale value.
It's not everyone's cup of tea, you just have to be realistic what you are buying.
Me personally, I love how the 992 GT3 drives on track. It's the superior car, but when it was time to decide between 992 GT3 or GT4RS other things also weighted on my decision, which may not be the same things other people value.
While I agree with most of what you said, IMO Porsche is going about it in the wrong way in regards to an entry point. My GT4 was my first Porsche and although my car is well set-up now, the deficancies had the opposite effect on me. It ruined my perception of Porsche. After what it took to get my GT4 "right", there is no way I would take that chance again with them.
If the GT4 was a $70K sports car, then yeah I could excuse it, but when you are asking a customer to fork over six figures for a small 2-seater sports car, it better be GREAT out of the gate, and it's not.
The big caveat are the road conditions. Even stock, my GT4 felt awesome when on smooth roads, but where I live that is not the case and my local road conditions really test the damping quality and effectiveness of the suspension and when you drive those kind of roads day in and day out, well you get the point. For some who can not and do not agree with my assessment, I submit that they probably have better roads they drive on
Last edited by TRZ06; 11-11-2022 at 05:42 PM.
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964C4 (05-09-2024)
11-11-2022, 05:37 PM
#52
While I agree with most of what you said, IMO Porsche is going about it in the wrong way in regards to an entry point. My GT4 was my first Porsche and although my car is well set-up now, the deficancies had the opposite effect on me. It ruined my perception of Porsche. After what it took to get my GT4 "right", there is no way I would take that chance again with them.
If the GT4 was a $70K sports car, then yeah I could excuse it, but when you are asking a customer to fork over six figures for a small 2-seater sports car, it better be GREAT out of the gate, and it's not.
If the GT4 was a $70K sports car, then yeah I could excuse it, but when you are asking a customer to fork over six figures for a small 2-seater sports car, it better be GREAT out of the gate, and it's not.
11-11-2022, 05:49 PM
#53
While I agree with most of what you said, IMO Porsche is going about it in the wrong way in regards to an entry point. My GT4 was my first Porsche and although my car is well set-up now, the deficancies had the opposite effect on me. It ruined my perception of Porsche. After what it took to get my GT4 "right", there is no way I would take that chance again with them.
If the GT4 was a $70K sports car, then yeah I could excuse it, but when you are asking a customer to fork over six figures for a small 2-seater sports car, it better be GREAT out of the gate, and it's not.
If the GT4 was a $70K sports car, then yeah I could excuse it, but when you are asking a customer to fork over six figures for a small 2-seater sports car, it better be GREAT out of the gate, and it's not.
For 95% of people it is great...you are just focusing on the suspension and expectations (probably way too high...because Porsche). Maybe you were expecting GT3 performance/goodies at GT4 prices?
Nothing in this life is perfect...go check the paint on the new Ferraris. Is the car flawed? no, but paying that kind of $$$$ and having a poor paint job is a big No No. Still people buy them and are happy with them.
Is like me never buying a GM product as I hate their exterior and interior design.....but I can't deny they do perform very good on track (when they don't have issues
)
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Larry Cable (11-18-2022)
11-11-2022, 05:52 PM
#54
I gotta ask, what was so terrible with the GT4 that required all the attention? I have a 981 GT4 and came from a well set up 996 Turbo that was a faux GT2++…and I don’t miss that car at all. The GT4 handles better, brakes better, shifts better, interior is MUCH better, sounds better…just isn’t as fast in a straight line.
The 3 biggest issues I had with it were... The pogo stick front-end, the under damped rebound in the rear, and the front and rear axles that did not "talk" well together and didn't feel in sync with each other when handling bumps both in a straight line and mid-corner.
Those that counter those arguments I submit either have better roads, are delusional, or don't know any better. All of those issues have been resolved after I installed the MCS 2-way dampers. If anyone doubts these issues, I welcome you to come visit me with your stock GT4 and we can do back to back runs on the same roads.
Roads that would unsettle my car stock, don't phase it now. AND when the bumps are big enough to phase it, the front and rear axles are in harmony with each other.
My point is that this is how the car should have felt out of the gate without having to do suspension work for the price Porsche charges for them.
Last edited by TRZ06; 11-11-2022 at 06:04 PM.
11-11-2022, 07:40 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
I think the chassis, the geometry, mid engine platform are all really good on the GT4/Spyder and the GT4RS has the GT3 engine. Whats been compromised on the suspension is the rear struts (probably Porsche could not do anything about that without a full redesign of the platform and since its sunsetting that was out of the cards), spring rates, PASM and the dampers. We know the spring rates in the front 45nm are way too low for the car but were selected to give a certain ride quality (soft/compliant on the street - this gives the pogo effect). PASM is also a big compromise as its too slow to effectively manage the dampers and weak spring rates, DSC helps this but not by much. The Bilstein dampers are really just not very good and the damping curves/valving also set for smooth roads or smooth tracks. There are other really questionable decisions by Porsche like the static rear toe link... the alignment settings from the factory... etc... All of this is undeniable and just the facts of this particular platform that work really well until you push the car or hit a couple of bumps. So people either dont know or dont care about these shortcomings which is fine. You can drive the car fast and work your butt off to keep the car on the line and that can be really fun. But its not the same as the car when its been properly modified and sorted which most people who track the car to one extent or the other. Even the guy in the VDO who did 7:17 says "wow I wonder what the car would do with a few mods!". Well dont wonder just go out and mod the car like most people do.
11-11-2022, 08:30 PM
#56
I think the chassis, the geometry, mid engine platform are all really good on the GT4/Spyder and the GT4RS has the GT3 engine. Whats been compromised on the suspension is the rear struts (probably Porsche could not do anything about that without a full redesign of the platform and since its sunsetting that was out of the cards), spring rates, PASM and the dampers. We know the spring rates in the front 45nm are way too low for the car but were selected to give a certain ride quality (soft/compliant on the street - this gives the pogo effect). PASM is also a big compromise as its too slow to effectively manage the dampers and weak spring rates, DSC helps this but not by much. The Bilstein dampers are really just not very good and the damping curves/valving also set for smooth roads or smooth tracks. There are other really questionable decisions by Porsche like the static rear toe link... the alignment settings from the factory... etc... All of this is undeniable and just the facts of this particular platform that work really well until you push the car or hit a couple of bumps. So people either dont know or dont care about these shortcomings which is fine. You can drive the car fast and work your butt off to keep the car on the line and that can be really fun. But it's ep, not the same as the car when its been properly modified and sorted which most people who track the car to one extent or the other. Even the guy in the VDO who did 7:17 says "wow I wonder what the car would do with a few mods!". Well dont wonder just go out and mod the car like most people do.
Yep, I agree on all your points and you hit on all the major deficiencies, AS WELL AS THE POSITIVES of this platform. AND my main gripe/point is that with what Porsche charges for the GT4, those deficiencies should NOT be there and could have been addressed/fixed but were not.
I had a couple of other gripes, but that was due to my alignment settings and the need to fix some geometry / bump-steer issues associated with that.
Last edited by TRZ06; 11-11-2022 at 08:33 PM.
11-11-2022, 09:54 PM
#58
11-12-2022, 12:50 AM
#60
Drifting
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