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As I indicated earlier, I asked PCNA to weigh in on this question of the C40 oil. In my email to them I indicated that some folks would be deleting their OAPs and did this make any difference. With the permission of the PCNA rep, here is his full reply:
"Hi Harry,
First off, congratulations on your 718 Spyder order! It did indeed complete production just last Thursday and hopefully will be on its way to you shortly, but do please keep in mind the holidays do play a factor in and may take a little extra time over normal shipping schedules. Beautiful spec as well, I myself love the GT Silver with Spyder Classic combo too, but I would have also gotten the red roof
Regarding the oils, our engineers in Weissach specifically develop and test oils quite extensively to ensure proper compatibility with the corresponding engine, and in this case the 718 Spyder manual does note the C40 specification worldwide. While yes, there may be various factors that come into play for that specification including emissions, the fact that we do not have functioning Gasoline Particulate Filters in the US at this time does not change the specification of the oil. The C40 oil is specifically tested and validated for that 4.0l motor and remains the only one we recommend right now.
Regarding the availability of the oil, I do apologize for the experience you had at your dealer and we will work towards improving that. The oil is indeed available (Mobil1 ESP X3 0W-40) and can be ordered in a 1L size bottle at any authorized Porsche dealer parts counter with the part number 000 043 210 93 and I do see ample supply at all our US parts distribution centers for it. It is certainly our responsibility to ensure you can purchase the oil we have specified for your vehicle in order to keep it running.
I hope this helps clear up any confusion and please feel free to reach out if you encounter any further issues regarding this.
Porsche Cars North America, Inc."
I appreciate how quickly the PCNA responded. I have looked up the Porsche part number that he provided and I find that that oil is running about $20+ per 1L bottle at several US Porsche dealerships. Also, Motul C40-spec oil is available at a much cheaper price on Amazon.
@Balloonmeister Thanks for sharing the above reply from PCNA and indeed the part number for a 1l bottle, at $20.68 from my search it is certainly liquid gold!
Holy COW..... $20 a QUART (Litre)? Absolutely ridiculous. Do we get a kiss, or at least a hug, with those prices since we're obviously getting f.... never mind. It's not a matter of being able to afford it or not - I'm sure every single one of us can. It's a matter of principle. That just isn't right.
Take car in for oil change. Tell the service advisor, hey be aware this car takes c40. Advisor: oh yeah no problem we know all about these things, I’ll tell the tech though to be sure. Goes into the back, tech is like c40!? Yeah right, that’s lock ness monster territory, nobody has ever seen it. A40 still fits nicely in the pour spout, so a40 it is.
then you drive off, finally source some of this elusive c40 elixir from Amazon Singapore, top it off at some point and unknowingly mix these apparently incompatible oils.
I was just at my local OPC and the parts/service department thanked ME for educating them about C40 oil! 3 of them, including a supervisor, verified the manual and the unique X3 code and admitted they never heard of different spec oils other than weight/viscosity, plus there was no product code for them to order the C40. I assume any oil changes done on 9A2 4.0s so far have gotten the wrong oil!
I was just at my local OPC and the parts/service department thanked ME for educating them about C40 oil! 3 of them, including a supervisor, verified the manual and the unique X3 code and admitted they never heard of different spec oils other than weight/viscosity, plus there was no product code for them to order the C40. I assume any oil changes done on 9A2 4.0s so far have gotten the wrong oil!
Well isn't that just peachy. As careful as Porsche usually is about educating their techs on service related issues how did this one get past them? I'm really interested in the non-compatibility issue since this goes against nearly everything I've learned concerning oils the past 50 years. Tio this point virtually all oils can be mixed, synthetic, non synthetic, mineral, etc. Not always recommended but nothing terrible would occur. And if Porsche dealers aren't aware of this then there are already cars out there running the wrong oil or a mixture of A40 and C40. Porsche needs to get their act together on this very quickly.
...everything I've learned concerning oils the past 50 years. Tio this point virtually all oils can be mixed, synthetic, non synthetic, mineral, etc. Not always recommended but nothing terrible would occur.
Emissions regulations and 100k-mile emission system warranties required by regulations have driven motor oil specification changes over the last couple of decades.
And now, direct injection and GPF have driven the C-spec oils.
Take car in for oil change. Tell the service advisor, hey be aware this car takes c40. Advisor: oh yeah no problem we know all about these things, I’ll tell the tech though to be sure. Goes into the back, tech is like c40!? Yeah right, that’s lock ness monster territory, nobody has ever seen it. A40 still fits nicely in the pour spout, so a40 it is.
then you drive off, finally source some of this elusive c40 elixir from Amazon Singapore, top it off at some point and unknowingly mix these apparently incompatible oils.
Similar thing happened on my F10 M5. this is the gen when BMW went from V10 NA to V8 biturbo and the oil recommendations changed
at 1200 break in service, I told advisor to make sure they have the right oil ..The guy said no problem, I will tell the tech but they also know as we have great mechanics
I asked them to sell me two extra quarts of oil as the engine burned 1 quart within 700 miles
took car home and my son noticed that the quarts were the old oil formula .He crossed reference the code numbers and it was the same oil used in the engine
otherwise I would have never known about it
Until a few years ago the majority of Porsche A40 approved oils were "full SAPS" as per the ACEA definitions and would fall under the A3/B4 category. However, full SAPS was not a requirement of A40 per se., and with the development of the low and mid SAPS e.g. ACEA C3, and better additive packages, the requirements of A40 could be met with a mid SAPS ACEA C3 oil of the right viscosity typically 5W40 or 0W40. Hence, recently you will have seen some A40 oils that also have dexos®2 approval. So whilst these A40 C3 oils would satisfy the mid SAPS requirement of the new C40 specification, the new C40 spec had to be developed to specify the mid SAPS requirement i.e. exclude the A3/B4 full SAPS oils. And as others have posted there is more to the new C40 / VW 511 specification than a maximum SAPS tolerance.
I believe there may be some misinterpretation of the "compatibility" between the oils. I read this to mean that the requirements are not the same and you should not use A40 in an application where C40 is specified and vice versa; exactly the same as not using an A3/B4 oil for a C30 application. Misapplication does not mean that the oil mixture in you engine will turn to custard, but rather you could in theory cause damage to you engine / emissions system. It's analogous with using an incorrect viscosity. I agree with those advocating using only a C40 oil for an application that requires it especially if within warranty period. It's not so much a case of causing damage by a half quart top up of A40, but rather being able to demonstrate, in the event of any engine problems, that any fluids added complies with the Porsche requirements.
The list of approved oils is currently short and can be downloaded from the Volkswagen Erwin site; I think someone also posted on another rennlist sub-forum. You can create an account for free to access the database and just download the complete ZIP package as the VW511 one page PDF is not listed directly on the website. I suspect CV19 may have slowed down the approval process for new oils and it's also apparent that the posted list is out of date as the Liquimoly is also approved as per following post. Below is a screenshot and hopefully Technical Data Sheets for most of the approved oils. (Edit: had some difficulty uploading the Champion and Wolf but added the Liquimoly). The availability in Europe appears to be better than the US presently, with the Mobil and Castrol readily available for ~£48 for 5 litres ($62)
Again, all this discussion about "Mobil 1" this and "Mobil 1" that - but there's C40 oil readily available in the US to order. It really is a non-issue...
Holy COW..... $20 a QUART (Litre)? Absolutely ridiculous. Do we get a kiss, or at least a hug, with those prices since we're obviously getting f.... never mind. It's not a matter of being able to afford it or not - I'm sure every single one of us can. It's a matter of principle. That just isn't right.
You think that is bad...
I heard back this morning from my local Porsche service rep, he ran the number that @Balloonmeister provided and this is his reply: "Good part number but seems to be very expensive oil, $43.75 per 1L..."
I heard back this morning from my local Porsche service rep, he ran the number that @Balloonmeister provided and this is his reply: "Good part number but seems to be very expensive oil, $43.75 per 1L..."
I heard back this morning from my local Porsche service rep, he ran the number that @Balloonmeister provided and this is his reply: "Good part number but seems to be very expensive oil, $43.75 per 1L..."
I ran liqui-moly in my 987 and did my own changes after quoted $400 for an oil change from the local p-car monger... I can rapidly see how this is shaping up. Guess I best get to work on some DIY video recon.
All very good reasons to do your own oil changes. It doesn’t take a huge investment in tools.
Also, buy a torque screwdriver for use on all the undertray fasteners, else, after a couple of changes you’ll find fasteners missing and/or speed nuts stripped.
12-16-2020, 09:16 PM
