Originally Posted by excelsiorz

I am not a "Corvette" guy either. Heck, I've never owned an American car....except for a 302 Ford Maverick Grabber that was impounded when the local town police caught me driving it without a license as a teenybopper.
But what does that mean? I am not a Corvette guy? Sure, I would not drive a post 1950s Corvette. Not my thing. And to be blunt, while Porsche guys may turn their noses to Corvettes I can tell you many a Ferrari driver does the same to Porsche. Heck, coming from driving Ferraris, I drove a GT3 Touring (a bit like a 911R) to see what all the fuss was about and I was left very disappointed. Heck, I find the Spyder to be as much fun at a fraction of the price.....and neither was as fun as the Ferrari.

BUT this C8 is not your Dad's Corvette. I was at Laguna Seca for the historics when GM did their show off of the car. I got to talk extensively with engineers and designers of the C8 and see its bare chassis and underpinnings. While not to F8 standards (neither is the McLaren IMO), the new Corvette is absolutely stunning value for the money, in and out.

I am not a "Corvette" guy. I am a guy impressed by good engineering and competitive value.

The point here is comparing, dollar for dollar, the C8 Z06 to the similarly priced GT4/Spyder. I would not be surprised to find the Z06 with its Maganride suspension will ride better on the highway and B roads than the GT4/Spyder and at the same time turn in far faster lap times at the track. Anyone interested in buying a Spyder needs to drive one. I was shocked by how much road noise there is just cruising on the highway.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Spyder, hence the entire point of this post, and unlike the C8 it has a manual gearbox, but I am in rarity as now sadly anyone, even folks who can't drive a stick, can buy a PDK equipped Boxster/Cayman.

I guess the question becomes, just how much more does a stick shift person want a stick over outright value and performance?

Either way, I would imagine the new Corvette will indeed cut into GT4/Spyder sales as it simply put is an around better package in every way dollar for dollar.

Originally Posted by blackholescion

The GT4 is my first Porsche, and my first N/A car, and I don't think you'll be disappointed. My M2 had 410 lb-ft of torque at the wheels (dyno'd) and the GT4 certainly doesn't feel slow with much less torque. I think the overall package, including the much lighter package, does wonders. I won't sell the GT4. It's the perfect sports car and what a modern sports car should be.

Originally Posted by hf1

^ @excelsiorz, a well put and compelling argument. When will orders start for this c8 z06 -- 2022 model?

Originally Posted by excelsiorz

I have driven the Spyder a bit. To be frank, I think these cars with 700 plus horsepower are overkill. My Z8 with 474HP is a nice sweet spot. My V12 Vantage with 600hp is fast enough for me to enjoy on the street. To me the Spyder feels like it really could use 450 or so hp because its chassis is so planted. Seems the GT4 RS could have 450 to 500 bhp as well as center lock wheels. I am really hoping they will offer this in the Spyder as well while bearing in mind the price of the Z06 so as to not make an RS crazy expensive.

Originally Posted by excelsiorz

I have driven the Spyder a bit. To be frank, I think these cars with 700 plus horsepower are overkill. My Z8 with 474HP is a nice sweet spot. My V12 Vantage with 600hp is fast enough for me to enjoy on the street. To me the Spyder feels like it really could use 450 or so hp because its chassis is so planted. Seems the GT4 RS could have 450 to 500 bhp as well as center lock wheels. I am really hoping they will offer this in the Spyder as well while bearing in mind the price of the Z06 so as to not make an RS crazy expensive.

Originally Posted by ExMB

Centerlock wheel sucks for those who track. They are only good for garage queens or those with $$$ for a support crew or constant dealer visits. IMHO

Originally Posted by Larry Cable

I agree it does not really work for people who (like to) change their wheels at the track, but its not that black/white ... it is a HUGE PITA none the less ... its not really more expensive (or frequent) than 5-lug costs ... its just complex and time consuming for little apparent technical gain

Originally Posted by excelsiorz

Why is it a PITA? I've had center locks on my Ferraris and vintage Jags and Lamborghini. A wrench and a hammer is needed for those older style center locks. Plus, you don't need to line up bolt holes (as you do on cars that use lug bolts like Ferrari). You just slide the wheel over the spline the screw on the locking nut. I've never used a Porsche enter lock. What makes them a PITA?

Originally Posted by ExMB

A search will answer all your questions and then some.

Originally Posted by excelsiorz

Why is it a PITA? I've had center locks on my Ferraris and vintage Jags and Lamborghini. A wrench and a hammer is needed for those older style center locks. Plus, you don't need to line up bolt holes (as you do on cars that use lug bolts like Ferrari). You just slide the wheel over the spline the screw on the locking nut. I've never used a Porsche enter lock. What makes them a PITA?

Originally Posted by Larry Cable

​​​​​​I did touch on this in an earlier post...

- you need a breaker bar and a 600nm torque wrench
- it's very difficult to break the cl esp on front wheels
- if you have pccb it's safest to use a tool to protect the rotors when taking wheel on or off to avoid hitting them with a wheel and chipping
- you have to torque to 600nm then back of and retorque
- you cannot do that with any load on the wheel it must be airborne... Again fronts are a challenge
- you are required to regrease the cl using a special castrol aluminum paste
- you must ensure the safety locks are re-engaged
- you need to inspect the drive pins the hub and the cl itself for abnormal wear
- there is a special maintenance program in place for cl card when tracked in order to replace wear parts
-...

Need I say more?

Originally Posted by excelsiorz

No, you need not. You have totally convinced me! And saved me money and grief! Thank you!

Originally Posted by Wazoo

Stumbled across this thread as I went through the, "should I get a GT4 or Spyder or just go back to the 911" after I sold the C4S. Here's Car and Driver's opinion. I just could not justify losing a front spoiler on Michigan roads lol. Back to the 911 for me, but I did call about both the 2016 GT4 and some new ones sitting in FL. No one was dealing back then (summer). https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...18-cayman-gt4/

Originally Posted by Larry Cable

Oops that was not my intent! I've had 3 cars with center locks and I would buy another so equiped but then I do not change wheels and tires any more often than 5 lug ...

Unless you change often it's not an issue imo but it is a pita!