TXshaggy

...and the LS6, LS7, LT4, and LT5 weren’t special?—-according to GM marketing they were.

Why did I pay more—much more— to go from 650 hp/tq to 414/309. I could explain it too you but doubtful you’d understand.

Archimedes

Back outs, VIPs, what's the difference. It's the same thing. Those are cars that were not specced by the eventual buyer and they're going to be harder to sell than a new allocation. And the primary reason there are more GT4s is because Porsche is building more GT4s than Spyders. Allocations for GT4s are still in demand. The decision for a buyer is going to be whether to take a less than optimal build, in which case I'd be looking for a discount to avoid paying for options that I didn't want. That doesn't mean that pricing down because demand is low, it means that the supply is not as desirable because dealers got stuck with custom ordered cars that they may have to discount to sell to convince a buyer to take a car that isn't perfect. The unique thing about Porsche is that their options are so ridiculously expensive, that all it takes is one or two options to have a 2-5% impact on the price/value equation for a buyer. If you scroll down the GT4s on AT, there are some really bloated builds on there, i.e., $120-135k without PCCBs but with plenty of extended leather, illuminated door sills, etc.

Archimedes

But that wasn't the point. His point was that demand for GT4s was low, which is not really the case, or at least I don't think it can be concluded simply by the number of cars on dealer lots. There are more GT4s being made and Covid is causing some back outs. That leaves cars that are suboptimal builds for the typical Porsche buyer who wants to spec his/her car exactly as desired, hence, more difficulty for dealers to move those cars. When the average Joe can walk into a Porsche dealer and get a GT4 allocation at a discount, then I'd say demand is well off.

Larry Cable

I agree with this, for the GT enthusiast they are going to want to spec their $100k+ car themselves, and if faced with a bloated (dealer) spec car will not want to pay for things like extraneous leather etc ...

just look at the Black/Aurum car at Marin as an example, a customer ordered car, with a very particular color & wheel combination ...

Larry Cable

+1

Archimedes

When I go down the list of GT4s available on AT, there isn't a single car that I'd pay sticker for, as none of them tick all my boxes and there's no way I'd pay this much for a car that wasn't speccd exactly the way I wanted it.

Larry Cable

ditto - in fact when I bought my 2010 GT3 from Monterey they discounted about $8k in frivolous leather options the salesguy had specc'ed on it - and it took the Finance Mgr to do so, since I think I offended the salesguy when telling him that I didn't need nor want any of the leather options. he'd specced on the car...

excelsiorz

You may well have a point. On the road where I live I see McLarens constantly as well as 488, etc. The other day I saw the new Corvette coming down the street and from a block or so away I thought at first it was a McLaren. Another time recently a new Corvette passed and from a distance and I thought at first it was McLaren. There is no denying the new Corvette is punching well above its price point, not just in performance (as it always has) but now in the looks department as well.

I have never been a Corvette guy, nor a Porsche guy (my last Porsche was a Prototech 993 Twin Turbo Cabriolet). I always been a Ferrari person. That said, I think the Spyder is a great car and looks a bit like a baby 918. That said, there are hundreds of thousands of Boxsters, cars with all the same basic body shape, floating around. On the other hand, for now at least, the new mid-engine Corvette is more rare than a Ferrari 488.

Comparing the Spyder /Cayman to the front engined Corvette makes no sense.

Some really interesting articles out there about the C8 Corvette and the competition, specifically the Cayman. And this is compared to the standard C8 that starts at just $59K ($64.5K) for the convertible. For true comparison purposes, I spec'd a C8 with options comparable to the configuration I would do on the 718 Spyder and the Corvette came in at just $77k while the Spyder in similar config is around $112k. That's a $35k difference for a 495 hp Corvette with a retractible hardtop and adjustable Magnaride suspension (which is similar to what Ferrari uses but is not available on the Sypder/GT4.)

https://www.topspeed.com/cars/five-c...-ar186099.html

What should really scare Porsche and McLaren (less so Ferrari as people buy Ferraris for name and prestige) is the C8 Z06 which is rumored to have an MSRP for less than a Spyder/GT4! To be available in 2021.

Crazy specs! 0-60 in 2.7 seconds? And the engine finally moves the Corvette from the rather boring but effective decades old pushrod V8 to an engine worth of Ferrari.....a flat plain crank V8 with 8500 to 9000 RPM redline!?!LT6 engine "will feature a Dual OverHead Cam (DOHC) configuration with 32 valves and is expected to feature a flat-plane crankshaft for quite the high redline, between 8,500 and 9,000 rpm.

Power is expected to be around 600 horses, while torque should land anywhere between 480 and 550 pound-feet. The engine was officially previewed by the C8.R, where it sounds absolutely vicious, delivering a yell that’s decidedly exotic, almost like a Ferrari."

Frankly, this seems almost too good to be true.

So who on earth would by a Spyder for the same money as a mid-engined C8 Z06 that has 200 more horsepower, a metal retractilbe hardtop, an adjustable suspension, a more modern chassis, a car that looks like it belongs parked next to a McLaren or Ferrari given its exotic looks?

1. Someone who wants a manual gearbox. (Shame on Chevy for not offering a manual!!!!!)
2. Someone who loves the size and shape of Spyder.

Cayman argument makes even less sense as it is a more track focused car and I can only imagine how badly it will be destroyed on a track by the Z06 600 hp mid-engined Corvette.
So I would think there are some people on the fence about the Spyder who might rightfully be waiting for the upcoming Z06.

Seems a good bit of a bargaining chip to deal with when negotiating a price for the new Spyder/Cayman.

Until now, Ferrari / Porsche / McLaren owners put their nose in the air to the old Corvette and for reasons that make sense. However I confess the new C8 Corvette is a totally different ball game, and if it out Ferraris Ferrari with a glorious normally aspirated 600 hp flat plain crank V8 then this will be something truly special.

To be frank, I had not thought of this when looking now at the Spyder. But now I am thinking about this so surely others are on the fence as well?

I wonder how much Porsche will discount its Cayman/Spyder once the new Z06 is reviewed by Road & Track, Car & Driver, Carfection, etc.

hf1

^ @excelsiorz, a well put and compelling argument. When will orders start for this c8 z06 -- 2022 model?

Larry Cable

OTOH you could not give me a Corvette or a new BMW M3/M4 for that matter - well ok you could give me one, but I would not part with my money for any of those, specs aside ... sorry I am just not a 'vette guy, nor am I an 'M; ' guy anymore ... there is nothing about those cars that would excite or incite me to own and drive one.

Westcoast

I have a tough time following your logic, sorry but you seem to like the name of the manufacturer of the car as much or more than the car itself...

I am a car guy, the engineering and package is what sells me not the name on the back, IMHO the Spyder is not even close to what the C8 has set out to be, your two points are not the only ones but do summarize why I paid more, much more for my Spyder then a C8, there was no sitting on the fence about this choice, and yes I have owned a Corvette in the past.

Perhaps if I had really deep pockets I would like to own both and maybe in a few years I may pick up a used C8 but since I can have only one sports car the choice was clear and the Spyder is it, I don't need a reviewer to make up my mind for me. I am sure Porsche keeps tabs on what GM is doing with the Corvette but I doubt at the corporate level they will make any price adjustment (discount) on the GT4/Spyder, they will sell everyone they can make, I don't see comparing a C8 and GT4/Spyder as a viable negotiating tactic.

pitt911

not bashing the C8 , but I can't wait till I rent one from Hertz for a week and see how it feels
I did that with the C7 for a week and was not impressed

TRZ06

I hear what you are saying and I get it. I'll be replacing my SS 1LE with the PDK GT4 and it will be my first P-Car, so I am sure I will be enlightened soon enough. I am a car guy and I do get the "feel" thing and it's the reason I am moving to the GT4.

However, I do think it is naive and arrogant to assume that the C8 Z06 is not going to steal some thunder from the mid-engine sports market, not just the GT4, but the ENTIRE mid-engine market.

blackholescion

The GT4 is my first Porsche, and my first N/A car, and I don't think you'll be disappointed. My M2 had 410 lb-ft of torque at the wheels (dyno'd) and the GT4 certainly doesn't feel slow with much less torque. I think the overall package, including the much lighter package, does wonders. I won't sell the GT4. It's the perfect sports car and what a modern sports car should be.

excelsiorz

I am not a "Corvette" guy either. Heck, I've never owned an American car....except for a 302 Ford Maverick Grabber that was impounded when the local town police caught me driving it without a license as a teenybopper.
But what does that mean? I am not a Corvette guy? Sure, I would not drive a post 1950s Corvette. Not my thing. And to be blunt, while Porsche guys may turn their noses to Corvettes I can tell you many a Ferrari driver does the same to Porsche. Heck, coming from driving Ferraris, I drove a GT3 Touring (a bit like a 911R) to see what all the fuss was about and I was left very disappointed. Heck, I find the Spyder to be as much fun at a fraction of the price.....and neither was as fun as the Ferrari.

BUT this C8 is not your Dad's Corvette. I was at Laguna Seca for the historics when GM did their show off of the car. I got to talk extensively with engineers and designers of the C8 and see its bare chassis and underpinnings. While not to F8 standards (neither is the McLaren IMO), the new Corvette is absolutely stunning value for the money, in and out.

I am not a "Corvette" guy. I am a guy impressed by good engineering and competitive value.

The point here is comparing, dollar for dollar, the C8 Z06 to the similarly priced GT4/Spyder. I would not be surprised to find the Z06 with its Maganride suspension will ride better on the highway and B roads than the GT4/Spyder and at the same time turn in far faster lap times at the track. Anyone interested in buying a Spyder needs to drive one. I was shocked by how much road noise there is just cruising on the highway.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Spyder, hence the entire point of this post, and unlike the C8 it has a manual gearbox, but I am in rarity as now sadly anyone, even folks who can't drive a stick, can buy a PDK equipped Boxster/Cayman.

I guess the question becomes, just how much more does a stick shift person want a stick over outright value and performance?

Either way, I would imagine the new Corvette will indeed cut into GT4/Spyder sales as it simply put is an around better package in every way dollar for dollar.