David Borden

Only the dealer knows how deep / solid the waiting list is. The OP can ask for a discount but if the demand is still there, most likely the dealer will not agree. At that point, its a game of chicken and the OP will have to be willing to walk away from the car and risk losing his allocation. The dealer wont give up margin unless they have to.. This is not a dime a dozen Macan we are talking about.

People are still spending money on cars. All one has to do is monitor BAT...

Toothengineer

Pretty much last week I decided I was going to get a GT4/Spyder my friend decided the same; as we both called around it become pretty apart there are no "deals" on GT4/Spyders, with a few asking over MSRP everyone had differing levels of deposits. Locally ended up being the best route for me to go (always my preferred route to). I do honor deals even if I take a loss.... Had a watch a few weeks ago that I had agreed to buy but had not paid for or picked up yet then covid hit, I still got it re sold it and took the hit but I have a established relationship there. I think a lot of it comes down to your relationship in the deal and if you value it. We all want the best deal of course but I always want to maintain a good relationship at the end of the day.

Pokerhobo

I suspect demand for GT4/Spyder is still high and with production being closed, supply is even more limited. Certainly a few folks may have dropped out, but I believe the waiting list wasn't empty yet.

Toothengineer

Agreed

usctrojanGT3

Can you please disclose which stealers are asking an AMD for GT4/Spyders?

Denny Swift

interesting! Remember there are no GT4s or Spyder in dealer lots so they can still be cocky and arrogant and still ask the same price as before the pandemic. But if Porsche produces their originally planned number of cars, I think there will be a glut. I suspect that Porsche is currently trying to figure out how many cars to produce and will greatly reduce the original numbers. My dealer for example has two allocations for the Spyder and two for the GT4. He was expecting more, but I suspect that’s all he will get for all of 2020 now. If so, Im sure that he will be able to sell them at MSRP since he had about 20 people on the list. But, I’m sure the list of real buyers is now way below 20. As long as the list contains more people than the number of allocated cars, they can continue to ask high prices.

hf1

No one knows the list of real buyers — not even the buyers themselves. Staying on a list (or multiple lists) is just a free call option on the market for any potential buyer. It can be dumped with zero loss anytime before a firm order deposit. In a lot of states even an order deposit is fully refundable. As such, waitlists and even orders (deposits) do not reflect demand correctly. If the stock market revisits or takes the recent bottom these waitlist call options will be worthless and will be dumped in size. Dealers know this.

The sports car market has been in a glut for a few years already even if a single new spyder ot gt4 doesn’t get made.

Denny Swift

Right. They will ask each person on the list to pay MSRP. If number one passes, they will go to 2, and so on. If they get near the bottom of the list and everyone says, "Pass", then things will get interesting. As of now, there aren't any real cars to sell so nothing can move. As V250 dates approach and buyers are asked to put down bigger deposits, the dealers will be able to see the reality of the situation. However, if those V250 deposits are still refundable (I can't find anything definitive if they are for my state or elsewhere), it still won't mean much. That's why I think the smartest and fairest thing for Porsche to do is to freeze all V250 lock-ins until the fog begins to clear, even if that's 6 months from now. It just doesn't seem ethical (I don't know if ethics apply to car dealers) to me to require non-refundable deposits on a car with a completely unknown delivery date. But as long as the deposits are refundable, there isn't much risk to the buyer. Even if the factories start to reopen this month, each country or each state could still be in lock down for many months. What good would it do to have your car sitting in a port for many months (if not a year)? I still want my Spyder, but I won't make a non-refundable payment at V250 stage next month unless there is a clear end in sight.

blackholescion

In many states, that's not legal.

Denny Swift

Yeah, I Keep hearing that but I can’t find anything definite via Google searches. All I can find is that deposits may be non refundable on factory orders. Anyone have a link?

Archimedes

This. I think that many dealers are going to struggle to keep the doors open and keep their people employed, and that is not a good thing. I also think that, come summer time, given he huge glut of high end sports cars out there for sale, some private owners are going to have to sell cars at much lower prices, and that makes me sad as well. I think the situation is far worse than people want to believe and that scares me a bit.

blackholescion

Not sure about PA, but here's one from NY for example. #3. Some state have laws, others don't. It's always good practice to get it in writing regardless.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/GBS/396-P%2A2

Denny Swift

That’s pretty clear that after the order is placed, the deposit is NOT refundable unless the purchaser wishes to cancel the contract because the car was damaged or it is not delivered within 30 days of the estimated delivery date. Those are the only two escape options I see. I think that is going to be the case in most states. If you decided to not take possession of the car because you find yourself in financial hardship, ill health, a family emergency, etc, then you are SOL by the letter of the law. That makes sense during normal times, but it doesn’t make sense now. Car manufacturers and dealers need to accept some extra risk during these times. They can’t just throw it all on us, Like you said, that would need to be in writing obviously.

Toothengineer

Cali

Westcoast

Interesting, during a world wide pandemic and financial market slowdown, I can understand if you were taking about a necessity, like food, medicine and shelter, but a boutique sports car purchase hardly seems like a required item. I would think as soon as push came to shove if a person didn't have the financials for this type of purchase already in place the order should have been cancelled back in February, early March at the latest.

Some domestic manufacturers are offering deals and incentives to customers, but don't think this is standard practice for hi-end marques like Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc. Hard to make an argument that you need a Porsche to go get milk and bread...