Time to renegotiate?
03-11-2020, 10:46 PM
#16
Thanks - they didn’t mind quoting me $140,000 for a GT4 in 2015. They had one “traded back” in with less 1000 kilometres on it. Retail was less than $100,000. I noted that and they said that is the market. They inferred that the market for this car had changed. Sort of like Kevin’ Costner’s character in the film Draft Day, when negotiating a trade on draft day when he said to his fellow GM “We are in a lot different world than we were 5 seconds ago”. I have purchased lots of new and used cars over a lifetime and Porsche was the first I bought at MRSP - they told me they don’t negotiate on list price.
To be clear I want to buy the car, I want to keep the economy going because if we all stop we will be in a recession. That is not my intent but if in a few months this car depreciates significantly wouldn’t that make me a fool to have paid full sticker, given what’s going on - to at least inquire. Price is almost always determined by supply and demand. The title of the thread wasn’t a statement but rather a question. Thanks to those who responded. I appreciate all perspectives.
To be clear I want to buy the car, I want to keep the economy going because if we all stop we will be in a recession. That is not my intent but if in a few months this car depreciates significantly wouldn’t that make me a fool to have paid full sticker, given what’s going on - to at least inquire. Price is almost always determined by supply and demand. The title of the thread wasn’t a statement but rather a question. Thanks to those who responded. I appreciate all perspectives.
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fueledbymetal (04-10-2020)
03-11-2020, 11:15 PM
#17
Instructor
Where do you think the money for these services come from? It comes out of the gross margin of the car. There's no way service is gonna absorb the free maintenance, there's no way parts and service is gonna absorb PPF, and there's no way F&I is gonna give away Tire and Wheel. At the end of the day all these products have a "cost" associated with them and are going to end up falling back on the sales department and the gross margin of the car.
03-12-2020, 12:06 AM
#18
These threads about value are the bane of Rennlist. Fing moronic. If you don’t want to buy the car, don’t buy it. The market will sort it all out.
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03-12-2020, 12:12 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
It wasn’t about the value of Porsche’s - it was about buying a new car in what may be a quickly changing market.
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AlexCeres (03-12-2020)
03-12-2020, 12:14 AM
#20
And why is that Porsche's problem to absorb your uncertainty? You agreed to buy the car at a certain price, you can either follow through or back out and (hopefully) lose your deposit for dicking around.
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03-12-2020, 07:49 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
Where do you think the money for these services come from? It comes out of the gross margin of the car. There's no way service is gonna absorb the free maintenance, there's no way parts and service is gonna absorb PPF, and there's no way F&I is gonna give away Tire and Wheel. At the end of the day all these products have a "cost" associated with them and are going to end up falling back on the sales department and the gross margin of the car.
also , the actual cost to dealer of services I suggested are much less than retail price so it looks better to the customer and both parties will be happy
most of us are going to be affected financially by this in way or another, some more than others
I am not telling op to do that , just gave few suggestions that to me are a good compromise
03-12-2020, 12:24 PM
#22
Three Wheelin'
Why is it United or American Airline's problem to make market adjustments when bookings drop off a cliff? Porsche makes "market adjustments" in their favor when they can, if the economy slows they'll need to get more aggressive or sell fewer cars.
That said, the Spyder should be fairly exempt from discounting so the dealer will probably just keep the deposit and sell the car to someone else. However, it doesn't hurt to ask for a better price when the car gets here, if they refuse you can always go to plan B.
That said, the Spyder should be fairly exempt from discounting so the dealer will probably just keep the deposit and sell the car to someone else. However, it doesn't hurt to ask for a better price when the car gets here, if they refuse you can always go to plan B.
03-12-2020, 12:26 PM
#23
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I understand that , but we all make compromises in life depending on the surrounding environment ... Current events are major in reference to economy, so a smart dealer , can take less of a profit to move a car rather than risk the car sitting around and they might take a loss on it
also , the actual cost to dealer of services I suggested are much less than retail price so it looks better to the customer and both parties will be happy
most of us are going to be affected financially by this in way or another, some more than others
I am not telling op to do that , just gave few suggestions that to me are a good compromise
also , the actual cost to dealer of services I suggested are much less than retail price so it looks better to the customer and both parties will be happy
most of us are going to be affected financially by this in way or another, some more than others
I am not telling op to do that , just gave few suggestions that to me are a good compromise
I think a key point here is that the OP agreed and possibly papers to buy the car at an agreed to price otherwise the order with his spec would not have been entered into the system, I see that as a agreement to be honored by both parties!
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JonnyD72 (03-12-2020)
03-12-2020, 12:35 PM
#24
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Why is it United or American Airline's problem to make market adjustments when bookings drop off a cliff? Porsche makes "market adjustments" in their favor when they can, if the economy slows they'll need to get more aggressive or sell fewer cars.
That said, the Spyder should be fairly exempt from discounting so the dealer will probably just keep the deposit and sell the car to someone else. However, it doesn't hurt to ask for a better price when the car gets here, if they refuse you can always go to plan B.
That said, the Spyder should be fairly exempt from discounting so the dealer will probably just keep the deposit and sell the car to someone else. However, it doesn't hurt to ask for a better price when the car gets here, if they refuse you can always go to plan B.
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03-12-2020, 12:48 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Seriously, you feel that after they build you a custom spec'd car and then deliver it 1/2 way around the world, that is the time to start "jamming" them for a better deal?!!! Anyone that does that is someone I would never do business with and IMHO deserves to be blacklisted from future transactions. What ever happened to honoring your word?
03-12-2020, 12:57 PM
#26
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I disagree, not just business but part of a relationship, if you are that affected by the market you shouldn't be buying a car like this now anyway, if panic is your solution then get out early and get out clean, no last minute game playing!
03-12-2020, 01:15 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
I think in the next month or so you can walk into a Toyota or Ford dealership and get a crazy price on a generic Camry or F-150. Far fewer people will be buying in this environment, and dealers will be wanting to move the inventory as every day the car sits on the lot it costs them money. So, generic car/truck dealers will likely have incentive to deal. Porsche MAY be a bit different. Porsches are luxury items, not necessities (well, I think they are necessities), and most people who are considering a Porsche and want access to a GT car (the Spyder is a GT car I think - or close enough), will just bite the bullet and see through the current market. You won't see a lot full of GT4s and Spyders, so to an earlier poster's point, the OP's dealer will most likely move down his list of customers wanting a Spyder.
I'll say that when I bought my GT4 at MSRP, I was happy as I'd been on the list and there were many after me. I had bought several cars from the dealer. My dealer did say to me that he really hoped I wouldn't flip the car (which I had no intention of doing). He said I could make $20 grand easy on the car by flipping, and he could have as well by asking $20k above MSRP, but that's not how that particular dealer worked. My loyalty and fair dealing over time got me an early allocation on a GT4.
I'll say that when I bought my GT4 at MSRP, I was happy as I'd been on the list and there were many after me. I had bought several cars from the dealer. My dealer did say to me that he really hoped I wouldn't flip the car (which I had no intention of doing). He said I could make $20 grand easy on the car by flipping, and he could have as well by asking $20k above MSRP, but that's not how that particular dealer worked. My loyalty and fair dealing over time got me an early allocation on a GT4.
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03-12-2020, 01:21 PM
#28
Three Wheelin'
And if you had made a commitment to go on a cruise a few months ago would you use the same logic? Things change, the market adjusts, life goes on.
03-12-2020, 01:40 PM
#29
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Let's stay focused, if the OP feels he didn't negotiate a good deal that was his mistake, thinking that a virus outbreak causing a market downturn dictates a discount after the deal was agreed to is BS in my opinion.
Last edited by Westcoast; 03-14-2020 at 05:54 PM.
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ElMills (03-13-2020)
03-12-2020, 01:55 PM
#30
I have a Spyder entering production soon. Paid full MRSP and some other BS fees (dealer car prep, etc - in Canada. I am thinking about cancelling or at least renegotiate the deal. The economic waters are changing. Porsche certainly had the high ground with more demand than allocations. Has that changed now?
If you feel you shouldn't purchase the car because the market now makes it untenable for you, cancel your order & let the dealer keep your deposit. Water under the bridge and you won't be worried that your purchase made your future life less certain.
If you still want the car but feel you should be able to get something due to market conditions, suck it up & accept your car. It's not the dealer's responsibility to make you feel better about your purchase. Their job is to provide to you the car at the agreed upon price. The little bit you might get back from renegotiating is a nit in the grand scheme of things (particularly on a $100K+ vehicle) & you'll have the car the you wanted.
MOO