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Hopefully they will use the increased price to staff up more and improve the process. This is my 4th PTS 991 order and only 1 I would say was an ok ordering process. The rest have all had problems/issues.
But how does raising the price impact the process? Having 2000 people asking for 1000 slots vs 2500 requests will do zero to alter the process. This is just Porsche cashing in, which is their right, but enough with the claims that this is with benevolent intent.
Raising the price has nothing to do with the process. Either you pay or you don't pay. Last time I checked, caring about timely delivery is well meaning intent.
Raising the price has nothing to do with the process. Either you pay or you don't pay. Last time I checked, caring about timely delivery is well meaning intent.
I am referring to Porsche's intent solely. And timely delivery is a key part of the process which has no direct relationship to price.
for me the price is not the issue.
the vagueness is.
when is PTS
what is the approved list
how much is it
who approves PTS request
there seems to be no rules.
rules dont have to be "fair" but there needs to be rules so those who are in it can decide to stay in it or leave.
if i am 5'-1", i am pretty sure i wont be first round pick for NBA
if i run 25 min miles, unlikely i be on the Olympic marathon team.
if PTS is $80k, i will bow out
Had a brief conversation today with a GM. Large dealership and has had not one PTS request for his GT3 allocations. Says he thinks the process for a PTS car on the manufacturing side has become such a huge pain in the *** for Porsche they are pricing it to deter it.....
That is Officially NUTS. I am sticking with
the free Carrara White and minimal options
....MSRP $156k. Chet
Chet: We have not had 'Carrara White' as
a standard color option for a while!
***
Originally Posted by NateOZ
I was told a new person was taking over
Porsche Exclusive in the US a few weeks
ago. Maybe this is one of his first moves?
If they lift customer service and quality, I
think it's fine.
I've thought for a longtime Porsche Exclusive
was terribly run and a joke of an offering vs
MSO etc. Maybe that changes now and true
custom becomes available - I would happily
pay $13k+ if you can truly get any color you
want (Fraise, Aubergine, Tangerine, Signal
Orange etc) vs the current PTS color
approval process.
a) To my knowledge, Barbara Boeckenhoff is
still running Porsche Exclusive at PCNA. She
has hired someone to replace the position
vacated by Melissa Witek (Personal Design
Manager) when the latter left to go to Mercedes.
The other design consultants - P. Mauney,
F. Truffner, Y. Nikolayeva & M. Tam - are
now probably going to report to this new
person. And my understanding is that this
new 'manager' will report, in turn, to Barbara!
b) 'Porsche Exclusive' does not control PTS.
Nor anything related to its production slots,
their limited allocation or its pricing. So
there is ZERO chances that it will be 'one
of his first moves'.
c) From my experience in dealing with
PTS, whatever price increase PAG has
decided to elevate PTS for the .2 991
gt3 will have not relation to any improved
process for making PTS easier to order
or a feasibility study on a color expedited
& approved.
***
Originally Posted by nuvolari612
This is where I get confused - customer
spending 200k you think they are struggling
with capacity and that justifies PTS increase.
Porsche is not making a paint to sample let's
call it what it is. A color they have already used
single stage - pretty simple stuff. Out of range
color that's what it is not paint to sample...Ferrari
takes the car to another contractor who sprays /
lays paint far better than factory and puts the
panels together much better it's a completely
different process unlike Porsche going to the
storage closet and switching paint using the
same process which should be called out of
range it's not paint to sample.
Paint to Sample can still work as advertised.
You can send your wife's favorite lipstick color
to Porsche with your custom order, wait for
it to go through a feasibility study, then if
approved, have your car painted by them
in this color!
Today, PAG has approved a full four pages of
PTS colors on its various 991/718 models, etc.
When I started reporting on PTS in July of 2012,
that list was only TWO pages long!
So customers & dealers are getting new
colors approved for PTS all the time! So
for some, it works as advertised. But the
process takes a long time & there is not
guarantee that your selected color will
be approved at the end of its feasibility
study!
What is different about the PTS process on
a gt or high demand models (Boxster Spyder)
is that when the 'PTS window' opens, you
need to have your color selection already
chosen or you miss out on the allocation.
But true Paint to Sample is still available
at Porsche if you & your dealer have the
time & connections to follow the normal
PTS request process & start a color feasibility
study!
***
Originally Posted by UT911GTS
"The first GT3 production runs will start in July,
2017. As a side note, the factory closes for
most of August for the annual factory updates
and retooling. Therefore, if you would like an
early build slot, I recommend selecting a stock
color and a PDK transmission.
The earliest production month for vehicles with
a Paint to Sample (PTS) color or manual transmission
will be October, 2017. However, due to anticipated
high demand, capacity constraints are likely to push
that date out much further. Please note there may
also be a price adjustment for PTS from previous
2017 models."
Utah: Could you explain to us who at PAG
or PCNA wrote you this message? I agree
that technically PTS could start three months
from approved order & PTS paint selection.
It takes at least three months to order the
PTS paint requested & properly set up the
logistics for having every required part painted
properly at the factory or a sub-contractor in
the just-in-time logistic dance. But we also
are hearing that most US PTS slots are being
'pushed' into the Spring of 2018 rather than
start in late Fall of 2017. So it would be good
to know the source of your statement!
***
Originally Posted by Dr.Bill
In this case, those of us who asked for PTS
were not told a price up front. We assumed
(possibly incorrectly) that it was a $6960
option like it is on all other 911's. In a
rational world, that assumption would
make sense. Then there are orders
showing a $9270 price, followed by
orders showing a $12,830 price. No one
knows the actual price. All the frustration
and hysteria could have been avoided if
Porsche simply told us the price up front.
Then it would be easy to decide - buy or
pass.
You are right about this: "Then there are
orders showing a $9270 price, followed
by orders showing a $12,830 price. No
one knows the actual price."
It's water-under-the-bridge now but many
months ago I predicted a higher price in
PTS on the .2 991 gt3. But it was just
speculation & no one needed to take it
seriously.
***
Originally Posted by evilfij
In 1967 there were 39 colors and Porsche
sold 4100 cars.
Evil: I am curious. What is the source of
your information on MY1967? Just three
years later, in MY1970, PAG built over
15K 911 & 914-6 and offered 21 special
colors & 9 standard colors. I see too few
cars 'sold' in your statement & way too
many 'color' choices. PAG only expanded
its color selection after the new paint plant
was added at Werk II in (I believe) 1969!
***
Originally Posted by Sonnen Porsche
I am happy to see the price is much higher
now as PTS is a nightmare for us dealers.
Brett, we can deal with your so-called dealer
'nightmare' scenario in more productive &
intelligent ways that your suggestion of raising
prices to these higher levels! Frankly, a higher
price doesn't mitigate any of your true 'nightmares',
such as a client refusing to take a PTS car after it
arrives or a customer gets pissed because his/her
PTS Porsche got there late in the model year, etc.
And for you to say you are 'happy to see prices
much higher now'' is, in my opinion, just pure &
unadulterated 'arrogance'! Do you realize how
annoying it is to hear what you just said if the
person at the other end of the converstation is
a Porsche PTS customer that has worked very
hard to get the funds to order a car from you?
Originally Posted by evilfij
Dealers make what, $1400 off PTS at $7k,
yet get to deal with the crazy as well as
delay in production and sale. I can see
why they are not keen on it. Even at
$12,830 probably is not even $3k in
profit.
PTS is an option available to Porsche
customers worldwide. Whether dealers
are 'keen on it', or not, is not the point!
Dealers should be helping their customers
get from PAG what they want! And we
need dealer's assistance if we are ever
going to have a fair & equitable PTS
program in our marketplace!
The program stands to be improved so
that it doesn't become, to put in terms
recently heard here, a 'nightmare' for
dealers. PTS orders do not need to be
bunched up by PAG towards the end of
any given model year (usually Spring).
Often these PTS cars get to a dealer in
the summer just before the new MY
models are released. And customers
are disappointed, or ask for a discount,
or even refuse to take them (e.g. CA
consumer protection laws). There is
no technical reason why PTS can not
be done at PAG three months after the
order is accepted by Porsche in their
order books. So we need dealers to
help the process by asking PAG to
spread PTS production evenly in the
model year (on a first ordered-first
served basis). And if we can get PAG
to agree to this, there will be less of
the so-called 'nightmare' scenarios
faced by dealers. I hope this is the
sort of conversation that is talked
about in dealer circles meetings with
PCNA!
Finally, there is no known technical
reason why PAG can not make PTS
more accessible for their customers.
Dealers need to help us put pressure
on PAG to increase allocated PTS slots,
not simply control demand by raising
prices to higher levels! I am not even
sure PTS at $12,830 will decrease the
demand. And if that is not the purpose
of this PTS price increase, then we have
other serious questions to pose to Porsche
regarding this move!
***
Originally Posted by STG
PTS >> $12,830 >>
Only have Eduardo to blame. The sad part, he
gets no cut. Much like the band member that
got kicked out of the group before they hit it
big
Originally Posted by Mech33
Yes, Eduardo should be added to the VIP
program for that alone!
Originally Posted by mcsmcs1
Good point- thanks Eduardo! Now we know
the real reason behind his sabbatical.
I counted the colors shown and quoted the production figures. No idea if they are correct.
I don't have a view on the price but as I am currently out of the running, the higher the better for me as it increases my chances of a slot. The ZPT threw a wrench in my plan. Oh well, nothing wrong with a C2 now and a GT3 later.
I believe you said earlier you bought one Porsche in the last 10 years and it was a 3RS from eBay. What Porsche dealer on the planet would sell you a GT2RS? Unless you mean with a six figure ADM...
My local dealer sold zero 918's I am the "first" on their list.
10 years since I bought a new Porsche but purchased many other cars from a friend of mine who owns a P dealership.
Anyway - this is the whole issue with Porsche. Some here say GT2Rs is unlimited now you state 100k adm. like I said used to come to this section and see all the guys tracking their cars now it's all about PTS ADM Allocations.
Owning a Carrera GT and GT3RS means something to Porsche dealers as does buying other cars. Read my signature or look at my avatar I love cars I hate bs.
My local dealer sold zero 918's I am the "first" on their list.
10 years since I bought a new Porsche but purchased many other cars from a friend of mine who owns a P dealership.
Anyway - this is the whole issue with Porsche. Some here say GT2Rs is unlimited now you state 100k adm. like I said used to come to this section and see all the guys tracking their cars now it's all about PTS ADM Allocations.
Owning a Carrera GT and GT3RS means something to Porsche dealers as does buying other cars. Read my signature or look at my avatar I love cars I hate bs.
Haha Love that last part and am putting it in my signature.
Brett, we can deal with your so-called dealer
'nightmare' scenario in more productive &
intelligent ways that your suggestion of raising
prices to these higher levels! Frankly, a higher
price doesn't mitigate any of your true 'nightmares',
such as a client refusing to take a PTS car after it
arrives or a customer gets pissed because his/her
PTS Porsche got there late in the model year, etc.
And for you to say you are 'happy to see prices
much higher now'' is, in my opinion, just pure &
unadulterated 'arrogance'! Do you realize how
annoying it is to hear what you just said if the
person at the other end of the converstation is
a Porsche PTS customer that has worked very
hard to get the funds to order a car from you?
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
Arrogance? Not at all Eduardo...far from it. Are you a commissioned salesman waiting 1 year and possibly up to 18 months to receive your pay check on an order that is simply painted a different color? I am. Higher priced PTS may allow more staffing, better organization and a streamlining of the process to get folks their dream car in the color they want in a timely manner. The Panamera Turbo I just ordered in PTS cost the client $9910...my profit on that PTS option was $1486 which will put an extra $267 in my pocket when the car arrives. Is that worth waiting 1 year for?
Doing as I suggested as far as Heritage colors available year round makes much more sense at $7500. For the client that wants the wife's Chanel lipstick color they need to pay more and wait times are extended if the color is not approved. If the color is approved they should be able to get a car to the client from the date of order in 6 months or less.
I am a vocal fan on this site of PTS colors and have actually gone through the long process of having 2 colors approved from Porsche for PTS. Chartreuse is an approved color thanks to Green Lantern and myself. He would love to paint his 2018 GT2RS in that color which is why we started the process years ago to ensure it was ready when the car was announced. I will be gutted if I don't get the allocation in time to paint his car that color as the PTS window is closed and we cannot get another slot for that car obviously. The process needs to change and I think the price going up is hopefully a sign that it is. Lets all hope it is a change for the better as far as organization, transparency, deadlines and of course quality of paint.
Chet: We have not had 'Carrara White' as
a standard color option for a while!
***
a) To my knowledge, Barbara Boeckenhoff is
still running Porsche Exclusive at PCNA. She
has hired someone to replace the position
vacated by Melissa Witek (Personal Design
Manager) when the latter left to go to Mercedes.
The other design consultants - P. Mauney,
F. Truffner, Y. Nikolayeva & M. Tam - are
now probably going to report to this new
person. And my understanding is that this
new 'manager' will report, in turn, to Barbara!
b) 'Porsche Exclusive' does not control PTS.
Nor anything related to its production slots,
their limited allocation or its pricing. So
there is ZERO chances that it will be 'one
of his first moves'.
c) From my experience in dealing with
PTS, whatever price increase PAG has
decided to elevate PTS for the .2 991
gt3 will have not relation to any improved
process for making PTS easier to order
or a feasibility study on a color expedited
& approved.
***
Paint to Sample can still work as advertised.
You can send your wife's favorite lipstick color
to Porsche with your custom order, wait for
it to go through a feasibility study, then if
approved, have your car painted by them
in this color!
Today, PAG has approved a full four pages of
PTS colors on its various 991/718 models, etc.
When I started reporting on PTS in July of 2012,
that list was only TWO pages long!
So customers & dealers are getting new
colors approved for PTS all the time! So
for some, it works as advertised. But the
process takes a long time & there is not
guarantee that your selected color will
be approved at the end of its feasibility
study!
What is different about the PTS process on
a gt or high demand models (Boxster Spyder)
is that when the 'PTS window' opens, you
need to have your color selection already
chosen or you miss out on the allocation.
But true Paint to Sample is still available
at Porsche if you & your dealer have the
time & connections to follow the normal
PTS request process & start a color feasibility
study!
***
Utah: Could you explain to us who at PAG
or PCNA wrote you this message? I agree
that technically PTS could start three months
from approved order & PTS paint selection.
It takes at least three months to order the
PTS paint requested & properly set up the
logistics for having every required part painted
properly at the factory or a sub-contractor in
the just-in-time logistic dance. But we also
are hearing that most US PTS slots are being
'pushed' into the Spring of 2018 rather than
start in late Fall of 2017. So it would be good
to know the source of your statement!
***
You are right about this: "Then there are
orders showing a $9270 price, followed
by orders showing a $12,830 price. No
one knows the actual price."
It's water-under-the-bridge now but many
months ago I predicted a higher price in
PTS on the .2 991 gt3. But it was just
speculation & no one needed to take it
seriously.
***
Evil: I am curious. What is the source of
your information on MY1967? Just three
years later, in MY1970, PAG built over
15K 911 & 914-6 and offered 21 special
colors & 9 standard colors. I see too few
cars 'sold' in your statement & way too
many 'color' choices. PAG only expanded
its color selection after the new paint plant
was added at Werk II in (I believe) 1969!
***
Brett, we can deal with your so-called dealer
'nightmare' scenario in more productive &
intelligent ways that your suggestion of raising
prices to these higher levels! Frankly, a higher
price doesn't mitigate any of your true 'nightmares',
such as a client refusing to take a PTS car after it
arrives or a customer gets pissed because his/her
PTS Porsche got there late in the model year, etc.
And for you to say you are 'happy to see prices
much higher now'' is, in my opinion, just pure &
unadulterated 'arrogance'! Do you realize how
annoying it is to hear what you just said if the
person at the other end of the converstation is
a Porsche PTS customer that has worked very
hard to get the funds to order a car from you?
PTS is an option available to Porsche
customers worldwide. Whether dealers
are 'keen on it', or not, is not the point!
Dealers should be helping their customers
get from PAG what they want! And we
need dealer's assistance if we are ever
going to have a fair & equitable PTS
program in our marketplace!
The program stands to be improved so
that it doesn't become, to put in terms
recently heard here, a 'nightmare' for
dealers. PTS orders do not need to be
bunched up by PAG towards the end of
any given model year (usually Spring).
Often these PTS cars get to a dealer in
the summer just before the new MY
models are released. And customers
are disappointed, or ask for a discount,
or even refuse to take them (e.g. CA
consumer protection laws). There is
no technical reason why PTS can not
be done at PAG three months after the
order is accepted by Porsche in their
order books. So we need dealers to
help the process by asking PAG to
spread PTS production evenly in the
model year (on a first ordered-first
served basis). And if we can get PAG
to agree to this, there will be less of
the so-called 'nightmare' scenarios
faced by dealers. I hope this is the
sort of conversation that is talked
about in dealer circles meetings with
PCNA!
Finally, there is no known technical
reason why PAG can not make PTS
more accessible for their customers.
Dealers need to help us put pressure
on PAG to increase allocated PTS slots,
not simply control demand by raising
prices to higher levels! I am not even
sure PTS at $12,830 will decrease the
demand. And if that is not the purpose
of this PTS price increase, then we have
other serious questions to pose to Porsche
regarding this move!
***
Yes, if you guys think so, then it must be true!
All I know is that no truer proverb exists than:
"No good deed goes unpunished"
Saludos,
Eduardo
Scottsdale
Wait just a second, what is this clear, factual and insightful post doing here?
08-03-2017, 06:36 PM
