COVID AND Vaccinations
06-09-2021, 11:37 AM
#61
Burning Brakes
mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy. And while it is the first time they have been used on such a large scale, they are not new. They have been studied for decades.
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tuffcalc (06-14-2021)
06-09-2021, 11:45 AM
#62
Rennlist Member
The death rate for the horrific global pandemic are about the same as they were pre-covid. The only thing the coronavirus has been successful in killing off are common sense, logic, the seasonal cold, and influenza. The laboratory rats and mice are forever grateful for sparring them.
06-09-2021, 02:15 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Some bedtime reading material for those interested to see both ends of the bridge. On the subject of Informed Consent and Covid-19 vaccines efficacy, effectiveness and safety.
Everything sourced from Public Health Agency of Canada and National Institutes of Health (NIH) USA.
1 of 2:
An Advisory Committee Statement (ACS)
Public Health Agency of Canada
National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) Recommendations on the use of COVID-19 Vaccines
Published May 28, 2021
Page 1, Page 2, skip a few… to get to:
Page 22
IV.3 Immunogenicity
No immunological correlate of protection has been determined for SARS-CoV-2; therefore, all immunological evidence in support of vaccine efficacy is indirect and cannot directly be used to estimate either vaccine efficacy or effectiveness.
There are several key knowledge gaps that affect the understanding of immune responses to COVID-19 vaccine:
· Which type of immune responses are important for protection from infection, severe disease, or transmission
· The durability of immune responses and how they may change over time
· How immune responses to natural infection compare to responses elicited from a vaccine
· How immune responses differ across populations (e.g., in immunocompromised persons, children) or by SARS-CoV-2 serostatus (i.e., past COVID-19 infection)
· How immune responses differ based on previous infection with non-SARS-CoV-2 coronaviruses
Due to limitations in the number of participants evaluated for immunogenicity outcomes and duration of follow up from COVID-19 clinical trial data, long-term evidence on immunogenicity is unknown. However, studies are ongoing.
The following section highlights key immunogenicity data for the authorized mRNA COVID-19 vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine and Moderna COVID-19 vaccine) and viral vector based COVID-19 vaccines (AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine and Janssen COVID-19 vaccine) only. For additional details regarding trial design, including study population and length of followup, and immunogenicity for these authorized vaccines, refer to the evidence summaries in Appendix A (for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine), Appendix B (for the Moderna COVID19 vaccine), Appendix C (for the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine) and Appendix D (for the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine).
Humoral immune responses
All authorized COVID-19 vaccines induce humoral immune responses, including binding and neutralizing antibody responses. Humoral responses peaked after the second dose of mRNA vaccine, and after the second dose of AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine in participants who were not previously infected. Humoral immune responses were elevated after the one dose of Janssen vaccine. Some vaccines induce higher immune responses in younger populations.
Viral vector-based vaccines may induce anti-vector immune responses, which may impact future vaccine efficacy and effectiveness and may vary by age, dose, and interval between doses.
Cellular immune responses
All authorized, available COVID-19 vaccines have been shown to produce cellular immune responses. Cellular immune responses increased after the second dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, while responses for AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine were maintained or decreased after the second dose. Cellular immune responses were present following one dose of Janssen vaccine.
Everything sourced from Public Health Agency of Canada and National Institutes of Health (NIH) USA.
1 of 2:
An Advisory Committee Statement (ACS)
Public Health Agency of Canada
National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) Recommendations on the use of COVID-19 Vaccines
Published May 28, 2021
Page 1, Page 2, skip a few… to get to:
Page 22
IV.3 Immunogenicity
No immunological correlate of protection has been determined for SARS-CoV-2; therefore, all immunological evidence in support of vaccine efficacy is indirect and cannot directly be used to estimate either vaccine efficacy or effectiveness.
There are several key knowledge gaps that affect the understanding of immune responses to COVID-19 vaccine:
· Which type of immune responses are important for protection from infection, severe disease, or transmission
· The durability of immune responses and how they may change over time
· How immune responses to natural infection compare to responses elicited from a vaccine
· How immune responses differ across populations (e.g., in immunocompromised persons, children) or by SARS-CoV-2 serostatus (i.e., past COVID-19 infection)
· How immune responses differ based on previous infection with non-SARS-CoV-2 coronaviruses
Due to limitations in the number of participants evaluated for immunogenicity outcomes and duration of follow up from COVID-19 clinical trial data, long-term evidence on immunogenicity is unknown. However, studies are ongoing.
The following section highlights key immunogenicity data for the authorized mRNA COVID-19 vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine and Moderna COVID-19 vaccine) and viral vector based COVID-19 vaccines (AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine and Janssen COVID-19 vaccine) only. For additional details regarding trial design, including study population and length of followup, and immunogenicity for these authorized vaccines, refer to the evidence summaries in Appendix A (for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine), Appendix B (for the Moderna COVID19 vaccine), Appendix C (for the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine) and Appendix D (for the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine).
Humoral immune responses
All authorized COVID-19 vaccines induce humoral immune responses, including binding and neutralizing antibody responses. Humoral responses peaked after the second dose of mRNA vaccine, and after the second dose of AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine in participants who were not previously infected. Humoral immune responses were elevated after the one dose of Janssen vaccine. Some vaccines induce higher immune responses in younger populations.
Viral vector-based vaccines may induce anti-vector immune responses, which may impact future vaccine efficacy and effectiveness and may vary by age, dose, and interval between doses.
Cellular immune responses
All authorized, available COVID-19 vaccines have been shown to produce cellular immune responses. Cellular immune responses increased after the second dose of mRNA COVID-19 vaccine, while responses for AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine were maintained or decreased after the second dose. Cellular immune responses were present following one dose of Janssen vaccine.
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997ajk (06-09-2021)
06-09-2021, 02:18 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
2 of 2
Health Canada NACI, in its most recent publication, still don`t mention even once genotoxicity, the most important long-term effects concern aspect of any vaccine. To that regard the following is publicly available on the US National Library of Medicine, National Institutes of Health (NIH), as referenced material from its source being International Journal of Molecular Medicine. It was initially published more than 6 months ago on the subject, with special focus on cost-benefit analysis.
Int J Mol Med. 2020 Nov; 46(5): 1599–1602.
Published online 2020 Sep 18. doi: 10.3892/ijmm.2020.4733
COVID-19 vaccine safety
Section: Cost-benefit tradeoffs
For any new product, the decision to implement (whether for commercial or non-commercial purposes) typically involves a tradeoff between costs and benefits. In the ideal case, the projected benefits would far outweigh the projected costs. The potential costs and/or benefits may be known to high, modest, or low degrees of certainty. Thus, a risk factor must be applied to the costs and benefits, reflecting the level of uncertainty about the projections.
The vaccine costs in this discussion are the potential adverse health effects from a COVID-19 vaccine, particularly for the mid- and long-term. For a vaccine with high levels of uncertainty as to the projected costs, a high risk factor is required. For the tradeoff to justify moving forward, a very high level of benefits would be required.
The cost-benefit tradeoff for a COVID-19 vaccine would be different for groups with different vulnerabilities to the disease. For simplicity, the target population for vaccination could be divided into 2 groups: The highly vulnerable, and the remainder of the population. The demographic population most vulnerable to the more severe consequences of COVID-19 tends to be the elderly with high comorbidities and others with compromised immune systems (2). It is a small fraction of the total population, although a somewhat greater fraction of the senior population. The remainder of the population, when infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, usually displays no symptoms or minimal symptoms. This demographic sub-division is similar to that for influenza and for the 2002 SARS pandemic (40).
The vaccine tradeoff analysis will differ for each of these two groups. For the most vulnerable, the main consideration is to survive the season. The mid- and long-term effects may be of lesser importance (although for the few younger members of this demographic population with highly compromised immune systems, the mid- and long-term adverse effects would not be negligible). For the least vulnerable (the vast majority of the population), the need for a vaccine is unclear, since the adverse effects of the virus appear to be minimal for most. This least vulnerable demographic population would have to bear the brunt of any potential mid- and long-term adverse health impacts that may result from a vaccine inadequately tested for these effects.
Thus, a vaccine that proved efficacious for the very short-term for all demographics may potentially be justifiable (albeit high-risk) for the most vulnerable demographic population. However, it is difficult to ascertain how such a vaccine could be justified for the remaining demographics.
Furthermore, the question remains of what are the present prospects for a vaccine efficacious even in the short-term. Trial results for a highly-promoted COVID-19 vaccine reported publicly have exhibited adverse effects of varying severity, where the test group was relatively young and very healthy (41,42), unlike the highly vulnerable elderly target group with comorbidities. In other words, even short-term efficacy has not yet been demonstrated for the least vulnerable demographic population, much less the most vulnerable demographic population who would be the most justifiable target of the vaccine.
In the present political environment, there is the potential that the majority of the population could be required to be vaccinated, even those demographics that were not vulnerable to the severe effects of COVID-19, and particularly those in the youngest demographic. The potential adverse consequences of such a mass inoculation with a vaccine not adequately tested for mid- and long-term adverse effects could be substantial.
Health Canada NACI, in its most recent publication, still don`t mention even once genotoxicity, the most important long-term effects concern aspect of any vaccine. To that regard the following is publicly available on the US National Library of Medicine, National Institutes of Health (NIH), as referenced material from its source being International Journal of Molecular Medicine. It was initially published more than 6 months ago on the subject, with special focus on cost-benefit analysis.
Int J Mol Med. 2020 Nov; 46(5): 1599–1602.
Published online 2020 Sep 18. doi: 10.3892/ijmm.2020.4733
COVID-19 vaccine safety
Section: Cost-benefit tradeoffs
For any new product, the decision to implement (whether for commercial or non-commercial purposes) typically involves a tradeoff between costs and benefits. In the ideal case, the projected benefits would far outweigh the projected costs. The potential costs and/or benefits may be known to high, modest, or low degrees of certainty. Thus, a risk factor must be applied to the costs and benefits, reflecting the level of uncertainty about the projections.
The vaccine costs in this discussion are the potential adverse health effects from a COVID-19 vaccine, particularly for the mid- and long-term. For a vaccine with high levels of uncertainty as to the projected costs, a high risk factor is required. For the tradeoff to justify moving forward, a very high level of benefits would be required.
The cost-benefit tradeoff for a COVID-19 vaccine would be different for groups with different vulnerabilities to the disease. For simplicity, the target population for vaccination could be divided into 2 groups: The highly vulnerable, and the remainder of the population. The demographic population most vulnerable to the more severe consequences of COVID-19 tends to be the elderly with high comorbidities and others with compromised immune systems (2). It is a small fraction of the total population, although a somewhat greater fraction of the senior population. The remainder of the population, when infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus, usually displays no symptoms or minimal symptoms. This demographic sub-division is similar to that for influenza and for the 2002 SARS pandemic (40).
The vaccine tradeoff analysis will differ for each of these two groups. For the most vulnerable, the main consideration is to survive the season. The mid- and long-term effects may be of lesser importance (although for the few younger members of this demographic population with highly compromised immune systems, the mid- and long-term adverse effects would not be negligible). For the least vulnerable (the vast majority of the population), the need for a vaccine is unclear, since the adverse effects of the virus appear to be minimal for most. This least vulnerable demographic population would have to bear the brunt of any potential mid- and long-term adverse health impacts that may result from a vaccine inadequately tested for these effects.
Thus, a vaccine that proved efficacious for the very short-term for all demographics may potentially be justifiable (albeit high-risk) for the most vulnerable demographic population. However, it is difficult to ascertain how such a vaccine could be justified for the remaining demographics.
Furthermore, the question remains of what are the present prospects for a vaccine efficacious even in the short-term. Trial results for a highly-promoted COVID-19 vaccine reported publicly have exhibited adverse effects of varying severity, where the test group was relatively young and very healthy (41,42), unlike the highly vulnerable elderly target group with comorbidities. In other words, even short-term efficacy has not yet been demonstrated for the least vulnerable demographic population, much less the most vulnerable demographic population who would be the most justifiable target of the vaccine.
In the present political environment, there is the potential that the majority of the population could be required to be vaccinated, even those demographics that were not vulnerable to the severe effects of COVID-19, and particularly those in the youngest demographic. The potential adverse consequences of such a mass inoculation with a vaccine not adequately tested for mid- and long-term adverse effects could be substantial.
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997ajk (06-09-2021)
06-11-2021, 01:07 AM
#65
On a positive note...
Here in Québec the government has finally allowed us to get our second vaccine at a much earlier date.
Originally they had said 4 months between doses but tonight I went on their web site and got mine moved to June 27th so just over 2 months between doses for me.
Here in Québec the government has finally allowed us to get our second vaccine at a much earlier date.
Originally they had said 4 months between doses but tonight I went on their web site and got mine moved to June 27th so just over 2 months between doses for me.
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rockrdude (06-11-2021)
06-11-2021, 10:01 AM
#66
Burning Brakes
On a positive note...
Here in Québec the government has finally allowed us to get our second vaccine at a much earlier date.
Originally they had said 4 months between doses but tonight I went on their web site and got mine moved to June 27th so just over 2 months between doses for me.
Here in Québec the government has finally allowed us to get our second vaccine at a much earlier date.
Originally they had said 4 months between doses but tonight I went on their web site and got mine moved to June 27th so just over 2 months between doses for me.
06-14-2021, 04:26 PM
#67
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The death rate for the horrific global pandemic are about the same as they were pre-covid. The only thing the coronavirus has been successful in killing off are common sense, logic, the seasonal cold, and influenza. The laboratory rats and mice are forever grateful for sparring them.
06-14-2021, 06:39 PM
#68
Could you please confirm for everyone what your profession is - or at least confirm what advanced knowledge you have of the subject? For example, could you let us know if you are an immunologist (or at least a physician), or have an advanced degree in microbiology, immunology or the like?
I tend to trust those that spend the better portion of their life learning and advancing knowledge in their field (e.g., an expert). I'm willing to be swayed if you have expert knowledge on this subject.
06-14-2021, 08:13 PM
#69
Instructor
Thanks, appreciate that.
Could you please confirm for everyone what your profession is - or at least confirm what advanced knowledge you have of the subject? For example, could you let us know if you are an immunologist (or at least a physician), or have an advanced degree in microbiology, immunology or the like?
I tend to trust those that spend the better portion of their life learning and advancing knowledge in their field (e.g., an expert). I'm willing to be swayed if you have expert knowledge on this subject.
Could you please confirm for everyone what your profession is - or at least confirm what advanced knowledge you have of the subject? For example, could you let us know if you are an immunologist (or at least a physician), or have an advanced degree in microbiology, immunology or the like?
I tend to trust those that spend the better portion of their life learning and advancing knowledge in their field (e.g., an expert). I'm willing to be swayed if you have expert knowledge on this subject.
Last edited by Nixin; 06-14-2021 at 08:42 PM.
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M3Inline6 (08-01-2021)
06-14-2021, 08:15 PM
#70
I am not on this forum to showcase my credientials, justify my knowlegde or degree’s to anyone. Least of all you. If I told you or disclosed these to you, you would most likely be in either awe or disbeleif. Maybe both. I am simply stating my personal opinion of the reality occurring before my eye’s. You can chose to beleive that which suits you best. But at least try to act civilized and dignified on a public forum.
Now back to Porsche talk.
06-14-2021, 08:29 PM
#71
Burning Brakes
I am not on this forum to showcase my credientials, justify my knowlegde or degree’s to anyone. Least of all you. If I told you or disclosed these to you, you would most likely be in either awe or disbeleif. Maybe both. I am simply stating my personal opinion of the reality occurring before my eye’s. You can chose to beleive that which suits you best. But at least try to act civilized and dignified on a public forum.
06-14-2021, 08:39 PM
#72
Three Wheelin'
in the US, 10% of the population has had covid. 615,000, that's six hundred and fifteen thousand, have died. Let that sink in. Its a little less than the population of Boston. People in this forum have suggested it's just Darwinism, just getting rid of weak people.
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M3Inline6 (08-01-2021)
06-14-2021, 09:02 PM
#73
Instructor
