Any Rennlisters from New Zealand?
03-03-2017, 08:09 PM
Huracan Performante Ring record
Plus blame the computers, especially those involved in optimising the many thousands of performance elements that came together to make the Performante, includng some number carried over from the base version. And an incredible performance from its design and development team, those same teams at Lambo's component suppliers, their test drivers, tuners, including the tuners of its active aero and other active systems, engine, cooling system, suspension, etc etc etc.
It is not a work so much of art as that of an immense engineering pyramid and I am seriously impressed with the whole effort especially following on the heels of the Aventador SV's sub 7 run. Gone are the days when lambos were exotic undriveable beasts with brake discs made from baked bean tin lids.
Plus Marco Mapelli sure as hell knows what he's doing out there, even if I'm not the only racer here perhaps feeling a twinge of sympathy for that last 0,03 seconds of Marco's run?
It would be even more interesting if such records were fully auditable of course, although the nature of selectable and adaptive electronic control systems probably makes that an exercise in futility these day. As evidenced by parent VW groups diesel ECU mapping not long ago, we're not far from the day when a car recognises the driver, the track, knows its in record mode, and optimises all systems accordingly, right down to running dangerously lean by massively relaxing standard operating protections.
Those levels of contextual optimisation are a huge engineering achievement in their own right of course, and do have flow down benefits to street performance, even if no driver will ever see those same performance maps on the street (engine, aero, cooling, suspension, braking, torque, 'stability management', electrical management, dynamic cooling etc etc etc. )
These days, that is just how cars are made, so not calling Lambo out on anything but it does make it harder to fairly compare times between different 'Ring cars and also reduces the predictive value of a model's 'Ring time for its performance in other contexts. And that's before any consideration that a manufacturer's 'Ringer - with sometimes hundreds of milllions of dollars of development money invested and hundreds of millions more in marketing and brand value potentially riding on its lap time - might not have just been drawn randomly off the end of the production line and driven to the 'Ring as is!
Even 'Trofeo R' doesn't necesarily mean the same things between different models of car as manufaturers compound and construction specs for tyres can sometimes vary (eg the 918 got its own specific version if I remember rightly).
I suspect that Lamborghini would be handicapping themselves out of the arms race though if they didn't anything at all to fettle the car for its special 'Ring destiny, with the same going for other manufacturers at the pointy end of things. A near neighbour of theirs at the top of most lists on that front, with recurrent reports of blueprinted engines and huge efforts to prevent anyone from trying to replicate the feats of the 'Ringer using their own standard production build.
Like some others here, I'm a bit of a 'Ring time junkie (got to get there one day to have a play), so while it may be frustrating that comparisons become increasingly less meaningful as the years go by, I remain deeply impressed by the effort and achievement that garland this Huracan Performante. Even taking its stated 600HP with a few grains of salt, that is a spectacular time and I did a triple take when I saw it was just straight naturtally aspirated, Forza Lambo!
Postnote: Just found a Driven article that states the Performante run specially developed model specific version of the Trofeo R. But that seems to be becoming par for the course anyway now I suppose.
We're celebrating the 'Ring record obsession here too probably - so take a bow the drivers, Porsche for doing more than anyone else to build up the 'Ring record game, and also to Nissan who arguably most showed other large manufacturers how to take them on at it.
It is not a work so much of art as that of an immense engineering pyramid and I am seriously impressed with the whole effort especially following on the heels of the Aventador SV's sub 7 run. Gone are the days when lambos were exotic undriveable beasts with brake discs made from baked bean tin lids.
Plus Marco Mapelli sure as hell knows what he's doing out there, even if I'm not the only racer here perhaps feeling a twinge of sympathy for that last 0,03 seconds of Marco's run?
It would be even more interesting if such records were fully auditable of course, although the nature of selectable and adaptive electronic control systems probably makes that an exercise in futility these day. As evidenced by parent VW groups diesel ECU mapping not long ago, we're not far from the day when a car recognises the driver, the track, knows its in record mode, and optimises all systems accordingly, right down to running dangerously lean by massively relaxing standard operating protections.
Those levels of contextual optimisation are a huge engineering achievement in their own right of course, and do have flow down benefits to street performance, even if no driver will ever see those same performance maps on the street (engine, aero, cooling, suspension, braking, torque, 'stability management', electrical management, dynamic cooling etc etc etc. )
These days, that is just how cars are made, so not calling Lambo out on anything but it does make it harder to fairly compare times between different 'Ring cars and also reduces the predictive value of a model's 'Ring time for its performance in other contexts. And that's before any consideration that a manufacturer's 'Ringer - with sometimes hundreds of milllions of dollars of development money invested and hundreds of millions more in marketing and brand value potentially riding on its lap time - might not have just been drawn randomly off the end of the production line and driven to the 'Ring as is!
Even 'Trofeo R' doesn't necesarily mean the same things between different models of car as manufaturers compound and construction specs for tyres can sometimes vary (eg the 918 got its own specific version if I remember rightly).
I suspect that Lamborghini would be handicapping themselves out of the arms race though if they didn't anything at all to fettle the car for its special 'Ring destiny, with the same going for other manufacturers at the pointy end of things. A near neighbour of theirs at the top of most lists on that front, with recurrent reports of blueprinted engines and huge efforts to prevent anyone from trying to replicate the feats of the 'Ringer using their own standard production build.
Like some others here, I'm a bit of a 'Ring time junkie (got to get there one day to have a play), so while it may be frustrating that comparisons become increasingly less meaningful as the years go by, I remain deeply impressed by the effort and achievement that garland this Huracan Performante. Even taking its stated 600HP with a few grains of salt, that is a spectacular time and I did a triple take when I saw it was just straight naturtally aspirated, Forza Lambo!
Postnote: Just found a Driven article that states the Performante run specially developed model specific version of the Trofeo R. But that seems to be becoming par for the course anyway now I suppose.
We're celebrating the 'Ring record obsession here too probably - so take a bow the drivers, Porsche for doing more than anyone else to build up the 'Ring record game, and also to Nissan who arguably most showed other large manufacturers how to take them on at it.
Last edited by 996tnz; 03-03-2017 at 08:31 PM.
03-03-2017, 10:30 PM
Rennlist Member
Salient points Walt and well said regards the technical par excellence that the Ring challenge presents. I too am a fan of these laps and the boundaries it encourages the manufacturers to push.
03-03-2017, 10:56 PM
Racer
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https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-918-a-10.html
read the last couple pages here - seems to be considerable debate about the integrity of the claims.
I don't have any particular comment or knowledge & have no ego involved ( which most of these threads devolve into), but enjoy the various vid clips.
Cheers
read the last couple pages here - seems to be considerable debate about the integrity of the claims.
I don't have any particular comment or knowledge & have no ego involved ( which most of these threads devolve into), but enjoy the various vid clips.
Cheers
03-03-2017, 11:31 PM
Rennlist Member
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-918-a-10.html read the last couple pages here - seems to be considerable debate about the integrity of the claims. I don't have any particular comment or knowledge & have no ego involved ( which most of these threads devolve into), but enjoy the various vid clips. Cheers
03-04-2017, 04:05 AM
Even 'Trofeo R' doesn't necessarily mean the same things between different models of car as manufacturers compound and construction specs for tyres can sometimes vary (eg the 918 got its own specific version if I remember rightly).
I suspect that Lamborghini would be handicapping themselves out of the arms race though if they didn't anything at all to fettle the car for its special 'Ring destiny...
I suspect that Lamborghini would be handicapping themselves out of the arms race though if they didn't anything at all to fettle the car for its special 'Ring destiny...
http://www.tyrepress.com/2017/03/lam...rofeo-r-tyres/
I would love to read a report on the custom or hidden system control software and custom maps (ECU, TCU, ABS, Suspension, Steering, Aero etc etc) involved in 'Ring records, but can't imagine that infomation being released.
I would say though, sacreligious as it may sound that the smoothness of the lap in the video that there looks to be is some serious voodoo going on with those systems in the Huracan Performante as it was the most boring record lap I've seen yet. Must be getting to the point where the driver drives the controls, the controls drive the computers, and then the computers drive the car pretty much how they see fit. Same driver in the Aventador SV record lap was a riveting spectacle so something's very different this time...
Give me a Ruf Yellowbird lap over the Huracan's anyday.
03-04-2017, 05:21 AM
I jumped at a rare chance to take the 944 on a decent road trip this weekend. With the rest of the family already in the eastern BOP, kiddy seats and luggage space were for once not the primary concern, so the choice of car was a no-brainer.
I left Hamilton on Thursday afternoon and just on the way out of town there was an old Maori guy hitching. I thought "what the hell" and stopped to pick him up. Imagine my disappointment when literally right around the corner there was a gorgeous female tourist with a big bag, also hitching
Anyway, he was a hoot, if a little stereotypical ("do Porsche drivers smoke pot?" and "I'm 57 and I have 20 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren"), and I dropped him off in Tirau.
Most of the trip was pretty standard but the SH35 section from Opotiki onwards is a favourite of mine. Little traffic, dry roads, well worn but still up-to-the-job R888s... big smiles. The 944 really does corner sweetly when you get some flow going. Plenty of time when I got there to take a couple of photos by the beach.
Happy 10 year anniversary, car. It has been, and still is, fun. Looking forward to the trip back home tomorrow.
I left Hamilton on Thursday afternoon and just on the way out of town there was an old Maori guy hitching. I thought "what the hell" and stopped to pick him up. Imagine my disappointment when literally right around the corner there was a gorgeous female tourist with a big bag, also hitching
Anyway, he was a hoot, if a little stereotypical ("do Porsche drivers smoke pot?" and "I'm 57 and I have 20 grandchildren and 2 great-grandchildren"), and I dropped him off in Tirau.
Most of the trip was pretty standard but the SH35 section from Opotiki onwards is a favourite of mine. Little traffic, dry roads, well worn but still up-to-the-job R888s... big smiles. The 944 really does corner sweetly when you get some flow going. Plenty of time when I got there to take a couple of photos by the beach.
Happy 10 year anniversary, car. It has been, and still is, fun. Looking forward to the trip back home tomorrow.
03-04-2017, 06:32 AM
Nice run and nice report Michael. Your car is probably better suited to those female backpackers than mine. If their backpack was big enough it could probably only go on my passenger seat!
03-04-2017, 02:19 PM
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Nice one Michael. Ive picked up a bare footed Maori guy once on the Old Russell Road in Lola. It was quite special. Never been in a Porsche before. Encouraged to show him how it performed we had a bit of fun which he really appreciated. And when i dropped him off at his destination house the whole whanau gave the thumbs up. Good to be onside with these locals too after kinda getting "escorted" out of town that time with John and you LOL.
03-05-2017, 06:29 PM
Three Wheelin'
As suspected, looks like it ran 'Ringer tyres, or at least one designed specifically for the models 'Ring performance:
http://www.tyrepress.com/2017/03/lam...rofeo-r-tyres/
I would love to read a report on the custom or hidden system control software and custom maps (ECU, TCU, ABS, Suspension, Steering, Aero etc etc) involved in 'Ring records, but can't imagine that infomation being released.
I would say though, sacreligious as it may sound that the smoothness of the lap in the video that there looks to be is some serious voodoo going on with those systems in the Huracan Performante as it was the most boring record lap I've seen yet. Must be getting to the point where the driver drives the controls, the controls drive the computers, and then the computers drive the car pretty much how they see fit. Same driver in the Aventador SV record lap was a riveting spectacle so something's very different this time...
Give me a Ruf Yellowbird lap over the Huracan's anyday.
http://www.tyrepress.com/2017/03/lam...rofeo-r-tyres/
I would love to read a report on the custom or hidden system control software and custom maps (ECU, TCU, ABS, Suspension, Steering, Aero etc etc) involved in 'Ring records, but can't imagine that infomation being released.
I would say though, sacreligious as it may sound that the smoothness of the lap in the video that there looks to be is some serious voodoo going on with those systems in the Huracan Performante as it was the most boring record lap I've seen yet. Must be getting to the point where the driver drives the controls, the controls drive the computers, and then the computers drive the car pretty much how they see fit. Same driver in the Aventador SV record lap was a riveting spectacle so something's very different this time...
Give me a Ruf Yellowbird lap over the Huracan's anyday.
I think active aero and computer controlled torque vectoring diffs (not brake activation) is the next big thing to provide a jump in performance and we will see 15/20 cars come out in the next 2 years with versions of this