NJMP PCA Club Race 2017 Schattenbaum Showdown
#211
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Unsure why you'd post that but for what it's worth - after the "fun" in Sprint 1 we (front-running SPBs) agreed to let you go on your merry way. I stuck out my hand on T8 and T9 on a couple of laps to let others know (per a prearranged agreement) I'm going to take those corners easy to create a slight gap. Provost can confirm this and it sucks to have to do that but it worked out for all of us and created a safer situation..
When the enforced parts of the rules mandate that all passes must be completed on straights (full overlap plus an inch lead before turn-in), then legally passing a car that's even 3sec slower becomes almost impossible, in-class or out. Things get even worse if the leading (slower) car is faster on straights due to a HP advantage.
Of course, it's very nice when a gentleman gives racing room to a fellow racer even when the rules don't mandate it -- it happens all the time and I always do it whenever a passer establishes ANY overlap with me -- but all too often gentlemen just choose to drive by the (enforced parts of the) rules instead ("Nice try but your 3/4 overlap at turn-in won't cut it. I'm chopping for MY apex. You figure out your safe pull-out as you turn under threshold braking!"). That's when things become less safe and less fun.
#212
Perfect Angel
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Thats a big pet peeve of mine as well. Guy in a J class car really messed up my races at Lime Rock two years ago. It was obvious and he should have known better. All motor and then slow in the turns. Couldnt get past him so no chance to battle P1. Still gets me going!
#213
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#216
Burning Brakes
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Thats a big pet peeve of mine as well. Guy in a J class car really messed up my races at Lime Rock two years ago. It was obvious and he should have known better. All motor and then slow in the turns. Couldnt get past him so no chance to battle P1. Still gets me going!
Which is why I'm at odds with myself when I become irrationally frustrated by drivers in faster classes who "ruin" my race ...
At NJMP, the second sprint was absolutely horrible for me; I spent the entire race trying to get by slower G and H cars (running +3 seconds) and having to make multiple passes before I finally got away in the final lap or two (I'd get passed back on the straight). All the while, the E class race stretched on down the road (never mind the effect on lap times and grid position for the next race) and I finished 5th in-class.
Is that right? Hard to say. Those cars also paid their registration fee! The rules gives them a right to the corner.
But here's the dangerous part - and the part I find myself having to temper: when you're fighting so hard to pass; when you see that you're lapping multiple seconds slower; when you see your race disappearing down the road. That's when I start to worry, and I have to make sure that I still drive a smart race.
At that point, though, its not a race anymore. But where do we draw the line? Those G and H cars - IMHO - after a few corner of being on their bumper, should have found a way to let me by. Or at the very least, not repass me on the straight after I made it passed two corners before!
#217
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I spent the entire race trying to get by slower G and H cars (running +3 seconds) and having to make multiple passes before I finally got away in the final lap or two (I'd get passed back on the straight). All the while, the E class race stretched on down the road (never mind the effect on lap times and grid position for the next race) and I finished 5th in-class.
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#218
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What you describe is the exact situation that occurred in my last 911 race at Limerock. It culminated with my frustration causing me to VERY late brake on a dive-bomb into Big Bend, hit wet/marbles on outer track, slide into sopping wet grass and totaling my car in the tire wall. Think about this the next time frustration is overcoming you and remember why you are there... ![Cheers](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/beerchug.gif)
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#219
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This is why I'm advocating to make these "agreements" (to leave racing room upon overlap) general and official instead of leaving it to each gentleman's random whim or discretion.
#220
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Originally Posted by Frank 993 C4S
Why should they? This is Racing and not DE.
On the other hand, as the passing car, I try to respect other cars who are having an in class battle and will try to pass them in a mutually beneficial spot to avoid ruining their race, but if I'm chasing a car in my class through traffic, then all bets are off.
#221
Burning Brakes
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When that car finally makes it passed, and quickly opens a gap over the course of a few corners - taking that pass back on the next straight and proceeding to slow down the car again doesn't seem like racing to me ...
#222
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Exactly, if you were truly 3 sec a lap faster, there's no way they should be able to catch back up on the straight. Sometimes it is to the lead cars advantage to give you a point by in a spot where it won't affect their lap time much, so that they can continue their close battle with in class cars, and battling you back and forth will just slow both of you down, but that doesn't mean they should move over any time you get close to them, then it's not racing anymore.
On the other hand, as the passing car, I try to respect other cars who are having an in class battle and will try to pass them in a mutually beneficial spot to avoid ruining their race, but if I'm chasing a car in my class through traffic, then all bets are off.
On the other hand, as the passing car, I try to respect other cars who are having an in class battle and will try to pass them in a mutually beneficial spot to avoid ruining their race, but if I'm chasing a car in my class through traffic, then all bets are off.
With cars that have different characteristics it is sometimes easy to keep a car bottled up behind you that is actually faster. Case in point, the J class car at LRP two years ago which had way more motor than me. Every race I have ever been in with that guy I have walked away from him if I get ahead. Why keep an out of class car behind you if there is nothing to gain?
On the other hand, have I kept an out of class car behind me as a "buffer" between another car in my class? Of course I have. Who hasn't? That's racing.
You can race competitively and still be a gentlemen about it The two are not mutually exclusive.
#223
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I always try to ask myself... are we dealing with a symptom of the issue or the root?
Here's what I think is the root problem and many of these issues would not be happening if it were solved. Too many classes has watered down fields so small classes are the result.
Low car class fields has the cars/drivers wanting to race with SOMEONE since they have really no one to race with in their own class. So who can blame them for wanting to get "race'y" with faster drivers in slower cars. It's frustrating but reality.
Look at the Summit roster with the letter cars.
H = 2 racers, I = 2 racers, J = 3 racers, K = 1 racer
So they WILL be racing with cars outside of their class... hopefully it's just not SPBs..
Here's what I think is the root problem and many of these issues would not be happening if it were solved. Too many classes has watered down fields so small classes are the result.
Low car class fields has the cars/drivers wanting to race with SOMEONE since they have really no one to race with in their own class. So who can blame them for wanting to get "race'y" with faster drivers in slower cars. It's frustrating but reality.
Look at the Summit roster with the letter cars.
H = 2 racers, I = 2 racers, J = 3 racers, K = 1 racer
So they WILL be racing with cars outside of their class... hopefully it's just not SPBs..
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#224
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Exactly, if you were truly 3 sec a lap faster, there's no way they should be able to catch back up on the straight. Sometimes it is to the lead cars advantage to give you a point by in a spot where it won't affect their lap time much, so that they can continue their close battle with in class cars, and battling you back and forth will just slow both of you down, but that doesn't mean they should move over any time you get close to them, then it's not racing anymore.
#225
Burning Brakes