Streak

There were three cars in the pits when race control stopped us on track for almost 3 minutes during the double yellow. They got the ultimate lucky dog. In looking at race monitor the lap we were stopped was about 4:45 vs a regular pace lap of under 2:00 so those in the pits got a nearly 3 minute advantage as they were allowed out of the pits while were we stopped.

Oops.

spg993tt

where do you draw the line where you no longer have to give up the perfect line and 'leave racing room"/ is it full overlap plus 1 inch? any overlap? within a car length? on the same straight?
rules are rules. they are never ideal. someone will want it one way, another wants it a different way. when you're a 'club' or a racing entity you either elect people to make the rules or hire a race director who makes the rules based on the overall best interests of whatever the group has determined is best interest. in nascar, its action, public interest, publicity, fan love affairs, so they tolerate rubbing and banging and fighing on pit lane, some monetary slaps but they might publicly say they hate it, but they love it. pca puts a heavy emphasis on cars and drivers going home in 1 piece, no impacts, no damage, no excess costs. fair, honest, clean racing.
some use that pca policy and rules to use subtle overlaps as a way to gain a position. in other series where you can "chop", that inside car would have given up that spot a bit earlier or pushed on...infact, he didnt have the position he wasnt even, he was barely at the rear quarter of the lead car. to me, he was using/leveraging the pca rules, since if he could just get a little further, maybe the lead car would be fearful of a 13 and just 'give it up'. and its not racing if we starting giving up too much. so if pca is alongside plus an inch, thats the rule. you head into a turn if you dont get to overlap and an inch, and you make contact, you knew the rules going in, you didnt get done. take your lumps. and dont cry and keep crying about it afterwards.

FeuerRacing

It's just the typical situation of being 4 seconds faster in the corners but 4 seconds slower in the straights. It's frustrating for the faster cornering car which is why I tried to get in front of you and we could have established a rhythm... oh well.. that's mixed class racing reality. As they say "it is what it is."

After the many failed attempts I just slowed up to give a gap and we raced on. I'm sure you enjoyed the hand signal pass I gave you when you qualified P3 and I was P2 just to keep that from happening again. Welcome!

In the future - make sure you have enough SP cars show up so you get your split starts giving us SPBs split starts.

Streak

Funny, I read the rule the exact opposite of the way you do. I'm not saying your way is wrong just that the rule is open to too much interpretation. The way I read it there is no provision for overlap to force racing room as you see it. Expressly the opposite in fact. In article after article in CRN it is stated that the following car at turn in must tuck in behind the lead car regardless of overlap. That to me is not racing. That's DE. The rule almost compel all passes to be on straights. At what point has the following car earned the right to share the corner? If half the field reads it your way and half read it my way we have a field of dive bombers and choppers. In that video the following car would have gotten the 13.

Maybe PCA should define "overlap" and "racing room"

hf1

I'm sure all PCA racers want and agree with this, including the ones arguing that the passing rules need to be changed or clarified. That's why no one is arguing against the 13/13 rule.

Driving your "perfect line" and only "giving it up" after someone has completed a full pass against you on the straight (before turn-in) is not racing -- it's not even DE. It's not racing when cars within 3sec of each other can never legally pass each other. Strategies for establishing (and defending from) overlap between closely competing cars are major parts of race-craft.

Besides, it's preposterous to think that "pulling out" from a 7/8 overlap against a competitive car while turning AND threshold-braking at the limit to avoid a chop is SAFER than leaving racing room, co-existing, and going through the turn side by side.

And what about these rules:
- (Rule 2, Part 2): "The car ahead at turn in ...does not “own” the corner." and
- (Rule 3): "Everyone must leave racing room."?

Perhaps the rules should also mandate point-by's so the lead car could signal which parts of the rules it intends to follow? No point-by: Rule 2, Part 1 (A chop is coming). A point-by: Rule 2, Part 2 and Rule 3. (Go ahead, I'll leave room).

The only one crying and making things personal is you. Your sanctimonious, passive-aggressive, ad hominem jabs at my 13 are getting old. I won't advise you on where you should take your advice.

spg993tt

fella, take a deep breath. i wasn't even referencing you or commenting about your 13. 13s happen. there isn't a pca racer amongst us that hasn't been within a whisper of a 13 and got out of it by luck or just good fortune. but i wasn't referring to you. I'm not even sure you were the OP or to whom i was addressing. wasn't directed at you or your 13.

hf1

In that case, I apologize for my tone at the end. Bygones.

FeuerRacing

Great use of the eject button on those videos Hunt. Why are you always in the middle of that stuff?

Must be your amazing charisma.

sbelles

Because he's so good he can drive for two and even three. It would have gotten real interesting fast without the prompt eject from the sandwich.

Streak

What can I say? People just like to be close to me

por944s2

Sprint @2 rear view.

FeuerRacing

Unsure why you'd post that but for what it's worth - after the "fun" in Sprint 1 we (front-running SPBs) agreed to let you go on your merry way. I stuck out my hand on T8 and T9 on a couple of laps to let others know (per a prearranged agreement) I'm going to take those corners easy to create a slight gap. Provost can confirm this and it sucks to have to do that but it worked out for all of us and created a safer situation..

You were not thinking you were magically leaving the field on those corners right?

Regardless - look forward to racing again in the future.

Provost Motorsports

True....I have video of us checking up 4 times intensionally let the sp-3 go on his way .....was very nice of him to eventually wave us by but the double yellow came out...

Frank 993 C4S

Let's all remind ourselves that PCA is mixed class racing and that there will always be cars with similar lap times that get to those same lap times in very different ways. Drivers just need to figure out how to deal with that as everybody on a race weekend has the same right to participate. We have the same issue in my class with some of the GTC3, GTC4 and GT3 cars but it's simply a matter of finding coexistence that does not lead to frustration.

I have a big issue with out of class cars meddling in races that they are not part of - but that doesn't seem to be the issue at hand here.

LuigiVampa

Thats a big pet peeve of mine as well. Guy in a J class car really messed up my races at Lime Rock two years ago. It was obvious and he should have known better. All motor and then slow in the turns. Couldnt get past him so no chance to battle P1. Still gets me going!