hf1

Racers wouldn't need to resort to unofficial arrangements like this (and I too have seen and done them) if the official passing rules themselves mandated and enforced safe and honest racing.

When the enforced parts of the rules mandate that all passes must be completed on straights (full overlap plus an inch lead before turn-in), then legally passing a car that's even 3sec slower becomes almost impossible, in-class or out. Things get even worse if the leading (slower) car is faster on straights due to a HP advantage.

Of course, it's very nice when a gentleman gives racing room to a fellow racer even when the rules don't mandate it -- it happens all the time and I always do it whenever a passer establishes ANY overlap with me -- but all too often gentlemen just choose to drive by the (enforced parts of the) rules instead ("Nice try but your 3/4 overlap at turn-in won't cut it. I'm chopping for MY apex. You figure out your safe pull-out as you turn under threshold braking!"). That's when things become less safe and less fun.

Streak

+1,000,000

Musche

And that is why he drove his car back on the trailer unscathed (and legal by the way) when others in the video did not.

Gary R.

Only problem was your "Gentleman's Agreement" at Limerock cost you a 13....

good hands

Probably due to his radio guy and support team.

Jas0nn

I'm torn by this - on the one hand, I completely understand that everyone is there to race. If I didn't care about where I finished, I would save a lot of money and stick to DE's. And I appreciate that those guys are driving their car as quickly as they can. I totally respect that.

Which is why I'm at odds with myself when I become irrationally frustrated by drivers in faster classes who "ruin" my race ...

At NJMP, the second sprint was absolutely horrible for me; I spent the entire race trying to get by slower G and H cars (running +3 seconds) and having to make multiple passes before I finally got away in the final lap or two (I'd get passed back on the straight). All the while, the E class race stretched on down the road (never mind the effect on lap times and grid position for the next race) and I finished 5th in-class.

Is that right? Hard to say. Those cars also paid their registration fee! The rules gives them a right to the corner.

But here's the dangerous part - and the part I find myself having to temper: when you're fighting so hard to pass; when you see that you're lapping multiple seconds slower; when you see your race disappearing down the road. That's when I start to worry, and I have to make sure that I still drive a smart race.

At that point, though, its not a race anymore. But where do we draw the line? Those G and H cars - IMHO - after a few corner of being on their bumper, should have found a way to let me by. Or at the very least, not repass me on the straight after I made it passed two corners before!

Gary R.

What you describe is the exact situation that occurred in my last 911 race at Limerock. It culminated with my frustration causing me to VERY late brake on a dive-bomb into Big Bend, hit wet/marbles on outer track, slide into sopping wet grass and totaling my car in the tire wall. Think about this the next time frustration is overcoming you and remember why you are there...

Frank 993 C4S

Why should they? This is Racing and not DE. Dealing with these situations emotionally is part of learning to race.

Gary, thanks for posting this as a reminder.

hf1

Yep, the gullible rookie got swindled. What else is new in life?
This is why I'm advocating to make these "agreements" (to leave racing room upon overlap) general and official instead of leaving it to each gentleman's random whim or discretion.

linzman

Exactly, if you were truly 3 sec a lap faster, there's no way they should be able to catch back up on the straight. Sometimes it is to the lead cars advantage to give you a point by in a spot where it won't affect their lap time much, so that they can continue their close battle with in class cars, and battling you back and forth will just slow both of you down, but that doesn't mean they should move over any time you get close to them, then it's not racing anymore.

On the other hand, as the passing car, I try to respect other cars who are having an in class battle and will try to pass them in a mutually beneficial spot to avoid ruining their race, but if I'm chasing a car in my class through traffic, then all bets are off.

Jas0nn

Because - and this is just my opinion - cars that are lapping multiple seconds slower than a car with a 160hp deficit three classes below (and 5+ seconds off their in-class leaders) should be heads-up enough to realize how they're affecting the racers on their bumper.

When that car finally makes it passed, and quickly opens a gap over the course of a few corners - taking that pass back on the next straight and proceeding to slow down the car again doesn't seem like racing to me ...

LuigiVampa

I agree that there are two sides to this issue but if an out of class car behind you is clearly faster I think you do the sport a disservice by not at least making it easier to let them by. It happens in professional racing so I believe we should see it in club racing as well.

With cars that have different characteristics it is sometimes easy to keep a car bottled up behind you that is actually faster. Case in point, the J class car at LRP two years ago which had way more motor than me. Every race I have ever been in with that guy I have walked away from him if I get ahead. Why keep an out of class car behind you if there is nothing to gain?

On the other hand, have I kept an out of class car behind me as a "buffer" between another car in my class? Of course I have. Who hasn't? That's racing.

You can race competitively and still be a gentlemen about it The two are not mutually exclusive.

FeuerRacing

I always try to ask myself... are we dealing with a symptom of the issue or the root?

Here's what I think is the root problem and many of these issues would not be happening if it were solved. Too many classes has watered down fields so small classes are the result.

Low car class fields has the cars/drivers wanting to race with SOMEONE since they have really no one to race with in their own class. So who can blame them for wanting to get "race'y" with faster drivers in slower cars. It's frustrating but reality.

Look at the Summit roster with the letter cars.
H = 2 racers, I = 2 racers, J = 3 racers, K = 1 racer

So they WILL be racing with cars outside of their class... hopefully it's just not SPBs..

hf1

The trick is to give racing room upon overlap. This way the car that's faster in the corners has the chance to get away from the 3sec slower car that's faster on the straights. When the enforced rules mandate that all passes must be completed on the straights (before turn-in) then the faster but lower HP car can never legally pass the slower but higher HP car, unless the latter shows mercy and lets it go. Mandating that side-by-side driving must only occur on straights is not racing either -- it's not even DE for the advanced Black and Red groups.

Jas0nn

Agreed!