Newbie unhappy with PCA DEs
06-02-2016, 01:58 PM
#151
Drifting
Chin disallows instructors from asking to drive a student's car, but the instructor can drive the student's car if the student requests it (though the instructor isn't obligated to do so). Chin instructors can also take students out in any run group including Red, and encourages instructors to take students out in the instructor's car. The pace for a demo ride needs to be safe, but doesn't necessarily need to be dialed way back - that decision is left to the judgment of the instructor, based on what makes sense for the student.
The Chin culture is that instructors and drivers are treated like adults, trusted with some freedom, and expected to exercise good judgment. They typically do rise to the occasion, which makes the events more fun for everyone. And the few individuals who don't exercise good judgment are usually identified quickly and dealt with on an individual basis, rather than imposing rules which reduce everyone else's freedom and fun.
The Chin culture is that instructors and drivers are treated like adults, trusted with some freedom, and expected to exercise good judgment. They typically do rise to the occasion, which makes the events more fun for everyone. And the few individuals who don't exercise good judgment are usually identified quickly and dealt with on an individual basis, rather than imposing rules which reduce everyone else's freedom and fun.
I instruct for both - They are different cultures = but share similar ultimate goals. When I was coming up the ranks, I had some good instructors and some so so instructors. My goal was to learn something from each one.
With that said - I think in some cases there is some truth to the whole Porsche joke about the difference between a Porsche and a Porcupine...
06-02-2016, 04:02 PM
#152
Wow so just read the OP... and I agree with what's been said.
PASS THAT FEEDBACK UP THE CHAIN. Be specific. Give names.
My experience: there are some GREAT, kick-*** volunteer instructors out there who do it because they love it. And there are some who clearly do it for the status, recognition, or to have their own butts kissed ("oh WOW you're SO FAST!").
That 2nd group has IMO ZERO BUSINESS being an instructor.
PASS THAT FEEDBACK UP THE CHAIN. Be specific. Give names.
My experience: there are some GREAT, kick-*** volunteer instructors out there who do it because they love it. And there are some who clearly do it for the status, recognition, or to have their own butts kissed ("oh WOW you're SO FAST!").
That 2nd group has IMO ZERO BUSINESS being an instructor.
06-02-2016, 04:31 PM
#153
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by OmniGLH
Wow so just read the OP... and I agree with what's been said.
PASS THAT FEEDBACK UP THE CHAIN. Be specific. Give names.
My experience: there are some GREAT, kick-*** volunteer instructors out there who do it because they love it. And there are some who clearly do it for the status, recognition, or to have their own butts kissed ("oh WOW you're SO FAST!").
That 2nd group has IMO ZERO BUSINESS being an instructor.
PASS THAT FEEDBACK UP THE CHAIN. Be specific. Give names.
My experience: there are some GREAT, kick-*** volunteer instructors out there who do it because they love it. And there are some who clearly do it for the status, recognition, or to have their own butts kissed ("oh WOW you're SO FAST!").
That 2nd group has IMO ZERO BUSINESS being an instructor.
06-02-2016, 05:40 PM
#154
Burning Brakes
Worked on my registrations tonight. Got my VBox (thanks Peter) and look forward to hopefully getting Porsche Track app to work. So far summer looks like this:
06/11 - PCA/PBOC Homestead
06/18 - PCA Barber
07/09 - PDG Homestead
07/26 - Chin Sebring
08/06 - PDG Homestead
Man, I never had a problem with last minute registration here in S Florida. But looks like Chin is completely different. Now have my eyes on the calendar to get:
08/13 - Chin Sebring
09/03 - Chin COTA
09/10 - Chin Barber
My GT4 has PCCB and based on what I have read on the PCCB threads I was thinking about paying a visit to BGB to change brake fluid to SRF and install steel brake line. In addition change pads for Pagid RSC1 as they seem to theoretically extend PCCB.
Look forward to everyone's input.
06/11 - PCA/PBOC Homestead
06/18 - PCA Barber
07/09 - PDG Homestead
07/26 - Chin Sebring
08/06 - PDG Homestead
Man, I never had a problem with last minute registration here in S Florida. But looks like Chin is completely different. Now have my eyes on the calendar to get:
08/13 - Chin Sebring
09/03 - Chin COTA
09/10 - Chin Barber
My GT4 has PCCB and based on what I have read on the PCCB threads I was thinking about paying a visit to BGB to change brake fluid to SRF and install steel brake line. In addition change pads for Pagid RSC1 as they seem to theoretically extend PCCB.
Look forward to everyone's input.
I plan to do the Chin/Barber event in Sept, probably instructing as well as driving. If you still plan to do it when the date draws near, send me a PM and we can make arrangements to meet up at the track and introduce you to some other folks there. The off-track social aspect of a DE weekend is a big part of the experience too, or at least it is for me. I'd be happy to help you in any way I can.
06-03-2016, 12:40 AM
#155
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by fbirch
That's quite a dense list of DE's, about two weekends per month. Your driving skill should progress significantly if you maintain that intensity of participation. And I'm guessing you'll find a large majority of good instructors over that time, although you might not click with every single one.
I plan to do the Chin/Barber event in Sept, probably instructing as well as driving. If you still plan to do it when the date draws near, send me a PM and we can make arrangements to meet up at the track and introduce you to some other folks there. The off-track social aspect of a DE weekend is a big part of the experience too, or at least it is for me. I'd be happy to help you in any way I can.
I plan to do the Chin/Barber event in Sept, probably instructing as well as driving. If you still plan to do it when the date draws near, send me a PM and we can make arrangements to meet up at the track and introduce you to some other folks there. The off-track social aspect of a DE weekend is a big part of the experience too, or at least it is for me. I'd be happy to help you in any way I can.
06-03-2016, 09:01 AM
#156
The Penguin King
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Just remember that Chin instructors are volunteers also. Some of them come from PCA, some don't. Instructor quality is variable with virtually all organizations.
06-03-2016, 09:16 AM
#157
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06-03-2016, 10:29 AM
#158
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I instruct with Chin, several PCA regions, and several other organizations. My impression is that Chin does a better job than most in monitoring how well their instructors are performing and weeding out those who aren't making the grade. As a for-profit which is a bit 'upscale' as far as their format, seat time, and less drivers at each event, they have a strong incentive to do that. Also, Chin instructors don't pay registration and are assigned only one student (unlike the PCA regions I instruct with), so Chin instructors also have an incentive to perform well if they want to continue to be accepted as instructors with Chin.
06-03-2016, 10:48 AM
#159
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As is so often the case, Peter speaks the truth.
I think instructor variability is more a function of the host organization than of their affiliation or profit/not-for-profit status.
Identifying and training potential instructors, monitoring their performance, and perhaps just as important helping them become better instructors is hard work. Not all hosts have the energy, depth, knowledge, or interest to do so.
I find good instructors helping each other to become better.
I think instructor variability is more a function of the host organization than of their affiliation or profit/not-for-profit status.
Identifying and training potential instructors, monitoring their performance, and perhaps just as important helping them become better instructors is hard work. Not all hosts have the energy, depth, knowledge, or interest to do so.
I find good instructors helping each other to become better.
06-03-2016, 10:57 AM
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BTW, I hate the title of this thread (not criticizing the OP; it was accurate but is painful to see) - the idea that a new student had a bad experience is so antithetical to my goal as an instructor.
I wish every student has a great experience at the track, and we as instructors have so much influence on that. We need to remember that we are the guides to a potentially great new enthusiasm for a person who may have been dreaming for a long time about driving on a track. They don't all have to become racers. Some just want to have good safe fun.
I wish every student has a great experience at the track, and we as instructors have so much influence on that. We need to remember that we are the guides to a potentially great new enthusiasm for a person who may have been dreaming for a long time about driving on a track. They don't all have to become racers. Some just want to have good safe fun.
06-03-2016, 11:55 AM
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As is so often the case, Peter speaks the truth.
I think instructor variability is more a function of the host organization than of their affiliation or profit/not-for-profit status.
Identifying and training potential instructors, monitoring their performance, and perhaps just as important helping them become better instructors is hard work. Not all hosts have the energy, depth, knowledge, or interest to do so.
I find good instructors helping each other to become better.
I think instructor variability is more a function of the host organization than of their affiliation or profit/not-for-profit status.
Identifying and training potential instructors, monitoring their performance, and perhaps just as important helping them become better instructors is hard work. Not all hosts have the energy, depth, knowledge, or interest to do so.
I find good instructors helping each other to become better.
06-09-2016, 01:51 PM
#162
Track Day
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aalencar,
This is Dennis from Bertil Roos......feel free to give me a call, or drop me a line. I will try and give you as objective an opinion as I can given my affiliation. Direction is hard to find as you get further into this sport, especially unbiased direction......so take it all in, and use your common sense.....but would love to talk to you..........570 646 7227
This is Dennis from Bertil Roos......feel free to give me a call, or drop me a line. I will try and give you as objective an opinion as I can given my affiliation. Direction is hard to find as you get further into this sport, especially unbiased direction......so take it all in, and use your common sense.....but would love to talk to you..........570 646 7227
06-09-2016, 05:46 PM
#163
Most of the Driving groups in the Metro NY area all pull from the same instructor base. All the groups share information between the Chiefs & operators. PCA, AUDI, HOD, NASA NE, Ferrari etc. Do wrong as a Coach at one group - we all know. Also- Bad student- we all know & communicate. We are all into safe serious fun and there is no room for non focused Coaches or out of control students.
06-09-2016, 07:05 PM
#164
Three Wheelin'
This thread is facinating from so many angles. The prime directive for our group is to ensure the student is safe and enjoys the experience. Then they'll return and continue with the organization.
Interesting to see so many approaches to what seems to be a commen goal.
Interesting to see so many approaches to what seems to be a commen goal.
06-09-2016, 10:33 PM
#165
-Mike