Nitrogen tank for tire fills
10-01-2014, 02:30 PM
#46
Really???? WINDERS!!! what am I going to do with you!?????
It is you that only reads, and not thinks!! this is a discussion. take things in the context for what they are being said!
I don't think we care what mixture of gases we have in the tire. so, maybe I should have said, "dry N2", or "dry gas" not just "N2". such a troll post.
As has been posted over and over again. the purpose of using N2 is for the fact that it is a dry gas from a bottle.
so, if YOU could think before you post, you would realize that the purpose, is again, to use dry air and not get the moisture so that the pressures don't rise AS MUCH........ So, by adding the Dry gas, N2, on a empty tire, which already has air in it, will only change the concentration of air to post "N2 Fill" of only 50% (edit... not 25%) more additional dry nitrogen. Let me now
that's what ive been doing for 10 years and it works great. no more borrowing compressed air at the track . its faster than the little air pumps and if I need to run an air tool for breaking a nut loose, I can do that too.
It is you that only reads, and not thinks!! this is a discussion. take things in the context for what they are being said!
I don't think we care what mixture of gases we have in the tire. so, maybe I should have said, "dry N2", or "dry gas" not just "N2". such a troll post.
As has been posted over and over again. the purpose of using N2 is for the fact that it is a dry gas from a bottle.
so, if YOU could think before you post, you would realize that the purpose, is again, to use dry air and not get the moisture so that the pressures don't rise AS MUCH........ So, by adding the Dry gas, N2, on a empty tire, which already has air in it, will only change the concentration of air to post "N2 Fill" of only 50% (edit... not 25%) more additional dry nitrogen. Let me now
that's what ive been doing for 10 years and it works great. no more borrowing compressed air at the track . its faster than the little air pumps and if I need to run an air tool for breaking a nut loose, I can do that too.
I am fairly sure I know what you were trying to say. But, one of your big problems is making statements that don't articulate what you are really trying to say. At least that seems to be the case because you are constantly claiming you are being misinterpreted and have to go on and on and on clarifying what you meant to say when errors are pointed out to you. This often goes on to the point that your clarifications don't come anywhere close to what you said in the first place. It's ridiculous!!
The simple fact is that the statement you made that I quoted was just plain wrong. No two ways about it even taking into account context. You just didn't think it through. Also, there is no such thing as "dry N2". "N2" is "N2". This is another example of you not being clear and correct. Again, I think I know what you were trying to say, but you are saying it wrong.
The bottom line is that no one should have to guess what you are trying to say. And you shouldn't post things that are just plain wrong and expect "context" to applied to somehow make them correct.
10-01-2014, 02:42 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Mark,
I am fairly sure I know what you were trying to say. But, one of your big problems is making statements that don't articulate what you are really trying to say. At least that seems to be the case because you are constantly claiming you are being misinterpreted and have to go on and on and on clarifying what you meant to say when errors are pointed out to you. This often goes on to the point that your clarifications don't come anywhere close to what you said in the first place. It's ridiculous!!
The simple fact is that the statement you made that I quoted was just plain wrong. No two ways about it even taking into account context. You just didn't think it through. Also, there is no such thing as "dry N2". "N2" is "N2". This is another example of you not being clear and correct. Again, I think I know what you were trying to say, but you are saying it wrong.
The bottom line is that no one should have to guess what you are trying to say. And you shouldn't post things that are just plain wrong and expect "context" to applied to somehow make them correct.
I am fairly sure I know what you were trying to say. But, one of your big problems is making statements that don't articulate what you are really trying to say. At least that seems to be the case because you are constantly claiming you are being misinterpreted and have to go on and on and on clarifying what you meant to say when errors are pointed out to you. This often goes on to the point that your clarifications don't come anywhere close to what you said in the first place. It's ridiculous!!
The simple fact is that the statement you made that I quoted was just plain wrong. No two ways about it even taking into account context. You just didn't think it through. Also, there is no such thing as "dry N2". "N2" is "N2". This is another example of you not being clear and correct. Again, I think I know what you were trying to say, but you are saying it wrong.
The bottom line is that no one should have to guess what you are trying to say. And you shouldn't post things that are just plain wrong and expect "context" to applied to somehow make them correct.
otherwise, these exchanges just turn out to be arguments and chest pumping events.
I agree, there is not a dry N2..... its just N2. The point was to compare what is in the tire vs what is pumped in from a bottle, its that simple. you get it, and im sure anyone else got it too. Its a common misconception. everyone thinks that somehow running N2 in their tires is going to do something special, when in actuality, its like I indicated. usually, they just fill the tires up from flat to pressure with N2 and it doesn't even do what they think it could , if the tire was purged several times. and even then, with the soapy water that the tire guys use, that water is in the tire permanently, unless purged at a later date after its vaporized.
anyway, so, what's the problem with scuba air, C02 or NOS?
10-01-2014, 02:47 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Read your own words Mark.
Your original statement revolved around a tire with "NO AIR" in it. It was that tire upon which you based your first conclusion.
FALSE = Bent slide rule; the basis for my comment.
Now you come back and correctly clarify that statement by indicating that air remains in the tire at STP.
Yet you have the chutzpa to call me a troll, an idiot and a rabble-rouser.
Your original statement revolved around a tire with "NO AIR" in it. It was that tire upon which you based your first conclusion.
FALSE = Bent slide rule; the basis for my comment.
Now you come back and correctly clarify that statement by indicating that air remains in the tire at STP.
Yet you have the chutzpa to call me a troll, an idiot and a rabble-rouser.
I have the chutzpa to call a spade a spade here. look up "Troll".
you see Kai.... a normal person, in a conversation in person, (for which I try to hold myself to this standard) would just say. "how can you say that? " or "are you assuming that their is still air left in the tire when filled with....." "or its not 25% Mark, its more like 50 to 75% depending on the pressure"
you see the 'bent slide rule" = "your stupid and im smart"= a Troll-like response to a discussion. if you don't agree... say why.... is your ego so frail and small that you need to pump it up here to make yourself feel better?
Even tire with no air, has air in it. I think its safe to say when a tire is mounted, most would say it has no air because the gauge says "0".
did you think I meant a perfect vacuum?????? really?
However, and you know this, there is air in the tire. same as there is air outside the tire. its not a stretch to assume this.
10-01-2014, 03:00 PM
#50
Nordschleife Master
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Even tire with no air, has air in it.
This statement is so deeply profound even I had to ponder it for a second or two.
It transcends the meaning of life as we know it, and gives hope to the lost, the hungry and those who have given up all but mere survival.
You should submit this one to the fortune cookie folks...
This statement is so deeply profound even I had to ponder it for a second or two.
It transcends the meaning of life as we know it, and gives hope to the lost, the hungry and those who have given up all but mere survival.
You should submit this one to the fortune cookie folks...
10-01-2014, 03:11 PM
#52
I swear, the older Kibort gets, the more bat**** crazy he is.
Not sure why everyone continues to feed him, doesn't matter what's said, he's always right.
Not sure why everyone continues to feed him, doesn't matter what's said, he's always right.
10-01-2014, 03:34 PM
#53
Rennlist Member
Even tire with no air, has air in it.
This statement is so deeply profound even I had to ponder it for a second or two.
It transcends the meaning of life as we know it, and gives hope to the lost, the hungry and those who have given up all but mere survival.
You should submit this one to the fortune cookie folks...
This statement is so deeply profound even I had to ponder it for a second or two.
It transcends the meaning of life as we know it, and gives hope to the lost, the hungry and those who have given up all but mere survival.
You should submit this one to the fortune cookie folks...
The Porsche turbo guys have been toiling with this for decades..... absolute boost , or...................
Yet again, there you go again. think about it....... if you get a flat, you say , "oh crap, I lost all the air in the tire."... right? but in actually, you really mean (and I mean as well), I have no air pressure above ambient, so that the air molecules in the tire per unit volume are the same as outside the tire.
anyway, if you start out with a flat tire with "0" pressure, there is still air in the tire. this is what I mean.... this is what you know I mean, and this is why you are still a Troll
If you had to ponder it..... look at this other analogy, because a flat tire can still give you hope.... Are you a" tire has some air in it vs no air in it" kind of guy when its flat?
I think the fortune cookie should say, "Even a flat tire has air in it". How about that?
10-01-2014, 03:35 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
10-01-2014, 03:57 PM
#55
Rennlist Member
So, back on topic....... for options, what is the cost of filling a bottle for NOS, Nitrogen or Co2. I think the only thing bad about Co2, is that in the presence of some water, Co2 can combine and make an acid which could corrode. don't know if that is true with NOS and N2.
so far, the little smaller than scuba bottle I use for NOS is very convenient for air at the track and holds enough air for dust blowing duty at the track, some light air tool work and a years worth of filling and topping off my race tires.
its $40 for the entire bottle filled with 10lbs of NOS. what does a N2 5ft bottle cost to fill? or a Co2 bottle.... what does it cost to fill a scuba tank?
so far, the little smaller than scuba bottle I use for NOS is very convenient for air at the track and holds enough air for dust blowing duty at the track, some light air tool work and a years worth of filling and topping off my race tires.
its $40 for the entire bottle filled with 10lbs of NOS. what does a N2 5ft bottle cost to fill? or a Co2 bottle.... what does it cost to fill a scuba tank?
10-01-2014, 05:16 PM
#57
Race Director
As the engineer says, the cup is neither half empty nor half full.
It is always 100% full: 50% with water and 50% with air.
It is always 100% full: 50% with water and 50% with air.
10-01-2014, 05:22 PM
#58
Mr. Excitement
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
"N2O is a greenhouse gas with tremendous global warming potential (GWP). When compared to carbon dioxide (CO2), N2O has 298 times the ability per molecule of gas to trap heat in the atmosphere"
"Considered over a 100-year period, it has 298 times more impact per unit mass (global warming potential) than carbon dioxide."
Nitrous oxide gives rise to NO (nitric oxide) on reaction with oxygen atoms. Nitric Oxide and metal do not get along well. Rims are metal and it seems that some people add it to tires that already contain air which is 19% O2. This unknown % mixture can present unknown reactions. Under pressure and or elevated temps the reactions are increased. Used in a track car tire it will be under under elevated temps and pressures. Some materials such as stainless steel and aluminium can act as fuels with strong oxidisers such as nitrous oxide, as can contaminants, which can ignite due to adiabatic compression.
Lets see, compressed dry air which brings with it this list of global and human toxic issues and other potential bad things
such as ________________ and also_____________ but most of all___________.
Or N2O which brings with it gobal warming, potential toxic reactions and is known to be reactive with a commonly used metal in automotive wheels.
Hmm.....Reactive greenhouse gas or non reactive non greenhouse gas?
You make the call.
"Considered over a 100-year period, it has 298 times more impact per unit mass (global warming potential) than carbon dioxide."
Nitrous oxide gives rise to NO (nitric oxide) on reaction with oxygen atoms. Nitric Oxide and metal do not get along well. Rims are metal and it seems that some people add it to tires that already contain air which is 19% O2. This unknown % mixture can present unknown reactions. Under pressure and or elevated temps the reactions are increased. Used in a track car tire it will be under under elevated temps and pressures. Some materials such as stainless steel and aluminium can act as fuels with strong oxidisers such as nitrous oxide, as can contaminants, which can ignite due to adiabatic compression.
Lets see, compressed dry air which brings with it this list of global and human toxic issues and other potential bad things
such as ________________ and also_____________ but most of all___________.
Or N2O which brings with it gobal warming, potential toxic reactions and is known to be reactive with a commonly used metal in automotive wheels.
Hmm.....Reactive greenhouse gas or non reactive non greenhouse gas?
You make the call.
10-01-2014, 05:46 PM
#60
Race Director
I find the concept of someone blasting around at 100+mph in an uncatted straight piped vehicle worrying about greenhouse gases pretty humorous!
Guess I should stop lubing the car with whale oil.
Guess I should stop lubing the car with whale oil.