KaiB

With degrees in both Chemistry and Math, I do indeed have a problem understanding you Mark.

I do indeed.

Carry on....if you're happy with your gas, that's all I need to know.

mark kibort

classic troll post!

I don't have my degree in math, however, I did have my share.
so tell me oh wise one. what am I missing, or better said, what are you having a problem understanding??

What part of a smaller container holding more mass at less pressure do you have a problem with?

I didn't know you had a degree in math..... why were the KE equations so hard for you to follow then? (edit) I went back to your posts. you were the only one that did agree with me in the brake/ KE discussion.... thank for that! (edit).... never mind..... a few post later you make a statement equating lap times vs rotor size with a lighter car..... still proves you're not using the expensive education to think about the problem correctly.

kurt M

No gas suppliers I know of will fill a SCUBA tank that has a scuba valve on it. SCUBA tanks can be filled with air or other certified breathing gas from a certified fill station but that’s about it. You might be able to swap out the scuba valve but why bother? scuba tanks require a yearly VIP inspection and a 5 year hydro that unlike standard swap out gas bottles you pay for. Why bother? Standard tanks can use a standard "first stage" regulator so you can see the amount of fill and set the output pressure. A scuba first stage does not have this feature.
NOS for tires is silly. Bad for tools, can’t use in struts and cost more than any other fill. So what if you can store it in liquid form? More of something you don't need is not better. CO2 or propane is cheaper and comes in liquid form too.

The only good thing Nitrogen has over compressor based air for tire fills is it is very dry. Period. Contrary to the sales pitches given for the nitrogen tire fills at the tire shops, Oxygen in air expands the same as Nitrogen and Oxygen does not leak out of tires faster than Nitrogen as the molecules are about the same size. The O2 in air does not hurt the inside of a tire ether. When was the last time you saw a worn out tire that had any visible breakdown on the inside that was not from running it while flat?
It is only the water that matters. Dry is good as it is has a more stable pressure rise and fall with temps. Dry is easy to do and you can get air as dry as from a nitrogen tank for a fraction of the cost and no tanks and fills needed. Get an in line desiccant air dryer and set it up on what you use to fill the tires. Fill through the filter and you will get many times the CF of air from a desiccant charge than you would get from a large Nitrogen tank.
Example if simple in line filter. http://www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com...Ml5XyiMECFadj7
Put a male fitting on one side and a female on the other and use it anywhere. Toss one in the glovebox for the street cars too. The stuff changes color when spent and you then simply swap out the filter. One filter can dry many tanks worth of compressor based air for a fraction of the cost and bother. 70 deg humid air in comes out as -40 dew point air. -40 dew point is bone dry.

mark kibort

Great Kurt! agree with all you say, and sets the record straight about N2.

BUT, why the problem with NOS. its awesome for a small bottle.... legal to do, and very easy to get. you say, "so what if its in liquid form", the point is there, you get more in the bottle than N2. and a key factor, as the mass drops in the bottle, so does the pressure, which then boils the NoS, to keep the bottle pressure constant. this is a huge advantage over NOS, if you are talking small bottle, size efficiency, etc. tools can use it, but just in small bursts. its mainly for the tires. 10lbs of NOS can fill as many tires as a tall bottle of N2. that's why I use it.
NOW, why not CO2 or propane????? really Kurt? well, propane goes BOOM, is NOT cheaper, and C02 doesn't have the liquefaction qualities at the temps and pressure of NOS so you never get the volume you need out of a C02 fill in a bottle as small as one im talking about.

by the way.. why not in the shocks?

However, I will say, NOS leaks vs normal air. the molecules are smaller. not so much in tires, but in sports ***** .

mark kibort

So funny, when I call out Kai, or anyone else on a fact.... they post their degrees, wow us with their knowledge, make statements as facts, but cant address the most simple of questions or conditions. They just go to black.

Kai, since you are self professed to be so smart in math and chemistry, I have a perfect question for you. go tell me how many tires I can fill with 10lbs of a NOS! (hint..... its more than you think, and more per volume than your average N2 bottle)
and aftrerwards, tell me the size of bottle Ill need for NOS vs N2 at room temp.

otherwise, STFU!

kurt M

Co2 comes in liqiid form in small easy to get bottles and has less DOT issues than some other gases. Matters not, you have your way and I have no desire to argue with you or expectations that you would or need to change your mind. My post was for anyone else that wants to read it.

kurt M

BTW. That is like saying g hydrogen peroxide is just like water but a little bit more Oxygen. One is the foundation of life the other will kill you dead

Matt Romanowski

Stop with the pesky details. They are practically the same.

mark kibort

I thought your post was good. yes, Co2 was close to the specs of NOS, but I was under the impression that Co2 didn't have some of the qualities of NOS. lll have to look again. but if you have the knowledge, im all ears.
you just mentioned that the propane was liquid., and that's obviously dangerous, and Co2 has different liquefaction points.

edit: Co2 needs to be at 1400psi to be at a liquid. that's too much pressure for most bottles. NOS, is much lower in pressure for a liquefied state.

remember, my only reason for using NOS is that I have the bottle, and the bottle is small , and its convenient to refill, but costs about 40 bucks for 10lbs. can you get 10lbs of C02 in my bottle at room temp?
its a simple question for you

mark kibort

Yes, that is a little like I was saying. in fact, exactly. so what is your point?
the little more oxgen in the gas was more in refererence to those that were concerned by the greatrer oxygenation possibilities. (hurting tires, etc) In the context of our discussion , (auto racing), I don't think we are talking about breathing it. in fact, doest it matter if its hydrogen peroxide, N2 , propane, or NOS..... you breathe only those , you are dead. we are talking about filling bottles and using it in your tires. why so argumentative??

mark kibort

Matt, go work on your 914

kurt M

the last thing you will get from me is an argument. I do not care what you like to use in your tires. I do care if you come here and post stuff that others might read and act on. You do not have any data on what NOS does to tires. NOS is not like air in many ways. Why would you think it will act "just like air" in tires when it does not do so anywhere else.
NOS is not air and does not act like it. It it not "Air with a bit more Oxygen" There is such a thing as air with more than 19% O2. it is used in diving and is often called Nitrox. EAN 32 and EAN 36 are two common O2 %. unless you test it it is just like air even when you breath it.
As to the rest. To get into a direct conversation with you is to enter into the realm what you just posted. It is like trying to use a compass in a room full of magnets. The original intent of the thread goes wandring off. I posted with the intent of showing the OP that there are ways to fill tires with dry air and not deal with a big tank or deal with using gases of unknown long term use profiles. I have done so and am now finished.

PPo

To add some actual value to this thread, can anybody tell me if NOS was used to fill these out?

mark kibort

no, those are natural.....

mark kibort

Hey, Kurt, you have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder. don't know the history, but you might want to look into that. (side topic)

im all ears, again. still yet ANOTHER post with no information
you say it doesn't act like air, I know its NOT air, but as far as a gas is concerned, and for the use of filling tires, I don't see the problem. I am no expert or do I remember much from chemistry, but I do remember doing some research when I put in a NOS system (against everyone's, like you , opinions) and was perfectly successful . no burned pistons, leaky valves, wrecked cylinder walls, etc. everyone was so fired up about burning up a motor for going too lean, without the real knowledge that lean doesn't burn up engines, stoich burns up engines!! (another side bar)

So, don't go away and hide. im asking, as a friend on the list. whats the problem with NOS in the tires? how is it nothing like NOS? ive been using it for many many years now, with absolutely no noticeable effects other than working exactly like dry air. (or pumped air for the most part, because most of us that do use Nitrogen, or have used it, have always just added it to a ambient pressure filled tire, unless its flushed out and not many do that for its full effects. I totally understand the molecular make up of NOS vs air with 15% more o2.... yes, big difference.. even how they would help fuel combust. different is one is a mixture the other is a compound. (not to diverge). the point is, ......... what the heck is your point.. we are not going diving with the stuff??

so, why would I think NOS would act like air when it doesn't anywhere else?
what do you mean. I don't think you can say, since you cant breathe it, then you cant use it. (which is by the way, the same for C02 and N2)
Really, what do you mean.

If kurt is going to be shy, maybe someone else might want to chime in and let me know why NOS wouldn't be just fine in the tire.... especially in the mixtures I use.. (in otherwords. 10% of the time, maybe ill fill a tire up that is flat. even then, that's 33% air and 66% NOS. all the other times, its 4-10psi added to the tire to meet pressure goals.