DE Safety
#121
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Joined: May 2012
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From: Mid-Atlantic (on land, not in the middle of the ocean)
It's my belief that telling a student what NOT to do, or "don't do XX", is not a good idea.. I keep my instructions (and his mind) focused on what he should be doing, but maybe that's just me.. Not sure scare tactics, especially for someone just starting out, is a good idea either.
#122
I've seen two incidents where street cars went up in flames, and in both cases, driver and instructor bailed out the windows. If their windows had been closed they might not be with us now. It's not easy to find a hammer to break the window when you've got flames and smoke around you.
^^^This ^^^^
And this ^^^ If you can't give a point-by on the straights, and you belong in the beginner run group for a while before we advise you to take up golf.
^^^This ^^^^
And this ^^^ If you can't give a point-by on the straights, and you belong in the beginner run group for a while before we advise you to take up golf.
Windows down.
If point bys use up too much of your brain bandwidth then you are in the wrong group and driving over your head.
I agree with MGlobe 100 %
#123
Our region runs four student groups. Conventional wisdom here is that the second to the highest group (which we call yellow) is the most dangerous. These tend to be students who have some skills and speed but don't know as much as they think they know. Anecdotally, we do seem to see more asshattery in that group, and the most recent serious incidents have been in yellow. It makes sense that this might be the most dangerous run group, but we don't have meaningful statistics to prove that.
Mike, we use to have this done (a way to keep statistics), give me a call, tho not today, and we can discuss it. - We should have this back in place as it did help quite a bit from a variety of ways.
#124
It's my belief that telling a student what NOT to do, or "don't do XX", is not a good idea.. I keep my instructions (and his mind) focused on what he should be doing, but maybe that's just me.. Not sure scare tactics, especially for someone just starting out, is a good idea either.
I agree, I think it's best to focus on what students should do, which is how I instruct in the car (eg, I always say "stay on the gas", never "don't lift"). But outside the car, and especially in a classroom setting, I do think it's helpful to show the consequences of mistakes so that students can develop an appreciation of the risks involved (at least it was helpful to me). Otherwise, the risks tend to be abstract and 'things that happen to other people', especially for students who haven't done a lot of track days and seen many mishaps firsthand.
I have found more effort is needed in student comfort so he / she can focus on learning rather than looking through a cloud of worries.
#126
We have the information Viking. It's just that the numbers are low enough that I question the statistical validity unless we go back and mine the data from inception.
#127
It's my belief that telling a student what NOT to do, or "don't do XX", is not a good idea.. I keep my instructions (and his mind) focused on what he should be doing, but maybe that's just me.. Not sure scare tactics, especially for someone just starting out, is a good idea either.
#129
-Mike
#130
It's my belief that telling a student what NOT to do, or "don't do XX", is not a good idea.. I keep my instructions (and his mind) focused on what he should be doing, but maybe that's just me.. Not sure scare tactics, especially for someone just starting out, is a good idea either.
Not the negative "DON'T KILL US"
pretty surprising how often it comes up with him
I think the dirty little secret of DE safety is the overall lack of quality instruction. We get by with what we've got in order to make events work, but overall it's just not very good. Especially once you get past BOTS.
I'm always surprised when I get in with an "advanced" driver and ask them about how the car "feels" in a situation and they have no idea what I'm talking about. They'll talk brake points, turn in, throttle all day long but have no idea how the car is behaving. They were only ever taught linear inputs.
#131
#132
exactly, one of Gary's most used commands is the positive "BOTH FEET IN"
Not the negative "DON'T KILL US"
pretty surprising how often it comes up with him
I think the dirty little secret of DE safety is the overall lack of quality instruction. We get by with what we've got in order to make events work, but overall it's just not very good. Especially once you get past BOTS.
I'm always surprised when I get in with an "advanced" driver and ask them about how the car "feels" in a situation and they have no idea what I'm talking about. They'll talk brake points, turn in, throttle all day long but have no idea how the car is behaving. They were only ever taught linear inputs.
Not the negative "DON'T KILL US"
pretty surprising how often it comes up with him
I think the dirty little secret of DE safety is the overall lack of quality instruction. We get by with what we've got in order to make events work, but overall it's just not very good. Especially once you get past BOTS.
I'm always surprised when I get in with an "advanced" driver and ask them about how the car "feels" in a situation and they have no idea what I'm talking about. They'll talk brake points, turn in, throttle all day long but have no idea how the car is behaving. They were only ever taught linear inputs.
The advanced instructors I have dealt ask me what the car feels like in various parts of the turns and various parts of the track. They have a tendency to push me more to my capability limit to see what the edges "feel" like. And some time this leads to an off which is a lesson learned.
I have only ever had one instructor in my car that I will never have back and it was one who liked to grab the steering wheel. But as a rule they are good at what they do.
#133
#135