winders

Come on Mike. If you don't get to warm up the tires properly because of conditions or whatever, you have to take that into account when you start. If you crash, you did something wrong. Where is the personal responsibility??

I think the Cup Car owners out there with wadded up cars through no fault of their own would prefer it if people would put "being safe" a little higher on their priority list. It would be different if this how people were making a living and their job was to win. But, this is Club Racing. All most people are going to get, at best, is a plastic trophy and the respect of their peers. Isn't the later the most important?

Scott

ProCoach

While David spoke of the benefit of warming the brakes to propagate heat from the rotors to the wheels, hence increase tire pressures and warm the tires, that is not factually the reason why fore-aft (gas-brake) is the ONLY way to properly warm the tires (which it IS).

The tire engineers will tell you that the goal is to generate heat internally through friction between the diagonal wrapping of the internal layers of fabric or metal belts.

The torque thrust generated by longitudinal acceleration/deceleration causes their movement against each other, quickly and evenly generating heat throughout the carcass, propagating through to the tread layer but also raising the internal temperature (thereby pressure) and stabilizing the tire as a platform.

David correctly pointed out that acceleration helps the rear tires warm more quickly and braking helps the front tires more quickly, but constant left-foot preload on the brakes doesn't count. It's the DELTA, or change in acceleration/deceleration rates that move the belts and generate heat internally and on the surface.

It always cracks me up to see people move side to side. While that knocks off external debris (particularly valuable at sandy paddocks), it does nothing for the warming of the tires.

IMO, Cory was the master of this that day. He laid down rubber leaving the pit lane from the false grid and aggressively, at every opportunity, accelerated past the point of losing traction in the rear, following by hard and longer braking to get the fronts balanced with the rears in anticipation of the start.

chrisc

The lack of a two lap pace was noted by several old timers from another racing org who were in attendance. It was mentioned that typically that decision comes from the race chair or chief steward of the event. They gave us two in rain Saturday morning. Guess I should stay out of this discussion & leave to the fast guys & pros. The wheels & tires on the rear of a Cup cost more than my car, trailer & tow.

ProCoach

I resemble that remark!

^^THIS^^

Word.

Astroman

Peter, I'm not trying to be argumentative or a smart-*** but: Why is it funny if it does indeed serve a "valuable" purpose (to remove clag, sand, gravel, etc)?

Yes, I agree multiple acceleration/decel is the most important warm-up lap practice (as has been discussed here many times). But don't you also do at least a few side to side swerves before taking a green flag?

Thanks for the explanation on the "delta" with regards to dragging a left foot brake. That makes a lot of sense!

jcs_911

Every time I have ever driven the pace car for a PCA CR, the pace speed was absolutely dictated by the chief steward. The pace car driver just sets the speed when and where (on the track) they are told, real time, over the radio. Maybe it's different now, but that was my experience.

Veloce Raptor

And the same was true with my non-PCA experience driving the pace car. I will say this: in one instance, the Steward suggested a speed, I looked at the field behind me and recommended 10 MPH higher due to the prevalence of cars on full slicks, and he agreed. So experience in & out of the pace car does count.

ProCoach

I drive (and have driven) slick-shod cars for a few decades, but the "shaking of the head" for me is because I know that the reason why people do this is because that's what they think they're supposed to do, that it's not rooted in fact or science.

No, I don't generally do (or recommend) side to side movement, but depending on the detritus on the tires, I sometimes move side to side upon leaving pit lane to knock crap off, but not after T1.

Ritter v4.0

The reason I asked about 1or 2 pace car laps is that few weeks ago I posted here about somewhat similar accident (but single car- mine). There were other variables but the weather was pretty similar. With 200 less hp than a 7Cup I hit the gas offline in the wet and looped into the inside wall down the front straight nose first without collecting anybody.

Might I have done the same thing with 2 warm up laps? Possibly not but next time don't intend to try the same maneuver and find out.

But I would say that with all the emphasis on safety by the PCA and others, taking an extra pace car lap in 40F wet weather doesn't seem overly cautious.

Veloce Raptor

I was the pace car driver when this happened. We did 60-65 MPH until the black flag station at T9, when I turned off lights & gathered the field. But only 1 pace lap.

Ritter v4.0

Yes- great lap pace. But adding to my circumstances was not getting out in quali due to mechanical issues. So starting near the back, the back half of the field had barely caught up to the front by T12 when green was called. There was no time to scrub even though I rode the brakes.
I know it wasn't your call but I wonder if others expected a second lap as well- I admit I did even though they did not announce it at the drovers meeting. It's just seemed like the right thing to do. I've been in early morning races at RA in 50F dry weather and they've given us a 2fer.

But even given 2 laps I think there was a real possibility I would have had the same result.

danielyonker

I'm with Winders. It is the racer's responsibility to be aware of and take into account all variables that may influence the car at the drop of the green. If it is cold, wet, or the brakes are cold or the tires not hot, or if the pace car is going to slow, or if you have a bunch of jackasses around you, then you the racer need to beware of this and drive accordingly.

I have raced in all of the aforementioned conditions, made mistakes and also conquered. In the end, if I wreck my car but it was someone else's fault, who cares? My car is still trashed (reference Mid-Ohio where a mis-shift and an over zealous evasive maneuver by others cost me my car) and in the end I loose.

I wasn't at RA, but it sounds like the race was not going to be won on the first lap and people could have proceeded more cautiously. Then again, it's racing, and red mist will get us all at one time or another.

gums

I can so easily see how this could happen. These are monster cars, with brute HP, big fat tires, cold temps, it all adds up. Plus, there's so much noise you can't even hear your own car come up.
But I also think that at R/Atl the green shouldn't be thrown this early. The leaders still have steering lock on. The first few rows at least should be straight line when it flies.

ZSA Motorsport

These guys wouldnt survive the 13 rule.

bb993tt

Thank you. That was my first ever red flag sighting. Though IIRC, it wasn't the last one that weekend! I also thought I would never see conditions worse at RA than then. Got that one wrong.