+1. I drove pace car several times at RA in February and did 65-70 for pretty much the entire track (not including the apex of T7, obviously) and then into 10a, I slowed to about 45-50 to bunch them up. Seemed to work very well for the Cups and other slick-shod cars in the field.

Very nice to see you, Peter, under trying conditions especially for your folks. Sorry we didn't hhave more time to visit...hopefully we can at COTA!

 

Perhaps one of our more connected (PCA) members could make the call to National.

As agreed here (many times) two pace laps at proper speed could be a huge help. This occured at Hallett last fall (the two laps part, the pace was WAY too slow!) - if the Nat crew is responsible for making this decision on the spot, guidance from HQ and pressure from the ranks could easily help prevent some of this carnage.

 

I wish you had been the pace car driver too, VR! That's exactly how it's done in pro racing and should be done with any slick-shod race group.

See you at the track!

 

couple of thoughts or comments from my experience:
1. agreed that on course like Lime ROck, RA, short course, or where there are fewer turns where we can build up some temps, two laps would be helpful. without the heat, the grip isn't there, the brakes aren't really ready to go. Plus, atleast in the Cup drivers meetings, they are adamant about not swerving back and forth to get temps up. I can tell you that in my cup and my Camaro if you step on it hard without putting in 3,4 easy easy turns, that thing will crack loose. the Pirellis have some coating/oils that takea smidge to burn off before you can even start adding in some grinding. but again, pca doesn't want the swerving. at a sebring, one lap should be plenty but let the cups swerve a bit, but go single file till you get on the back straight. if wet, cold, add a second so a) drivers can add temps slowly and properly to the tires and brake system, and b) they can see the damp areas. i'm not sure but its possible everyone in the field, in adverse conditions might have benefited from seeing the damp spots atleast once before going to full power;

2. lots of talk about pca drivers being over their heads in cup cars. its possible. some are, for sure. in general, and I love my cup, have had a few, have some track records, some wins, and try to be respectful..but a 997 cup is an absolute handful. to drive that thing fast, you are literally on the teetering edge of that thing wanting to kill you, or you win. if you want to be at the limit, you're teetering between 98 to 104% of what a tire can give you, of what your braking can give you. that's the case in all cars, but the 997 Cup is just, in my estimation so much harder to drive than lets say a Ferrari grand am car, etc. ive raced spec miatas, have done well in boxsters, etc. . in my estimation, from a "fun perspective" , those slower cars are just more fun, the cars are more predictable, they crack loose at slower speeds so you can react and cope with them. you're going slower so if you cant recover, the impact and damage thereafter is possibly a bit less.

I don't want to necessarily put on a flame suit here, but yeah, I think for the most part, probably 70% of the GT field is a bit over their heads, or unaware of the risks and results that can come froma simple mistake in a cup.

I love my cup. when I get out of it, with the speeds, the g forces, its thrilling but sometimes i'm just glad to get out of the cockpit and decompress.
when im in my spec Miata, or when I used to be in the boxsters, etc. and now the Camaro, I literally have smiles ear to ear and could run in that thing till it zero'd out of gas.

ultimately, guys in cup cars have to realize you're not wielding a butter knife, but a nasty laser cut sword. I think we have to give more room, be more courteous and be a bit sharper at all times, let alone when its bad.

as far as the #69 car, that's just a mistake, its gonna happen, he takes his 13 and everything else is a result of playing with big expensive toys.

 

I have no dog in this fight, especially regarding 1 pace lap versus 2. My concern was with the pace speeds. However, regarding Steve's point that 2 laps would have given the drivers better opportunity to eyeball the damp spots, I will defer to what David Murry said in the meeting immediately following the big crash: the only corner the drivers could not eyeball at pace speeds behind the pace car was T12...and that hill & corner (which is where the incident occurred) was plainly visible from the paddock and the tower building for anyone who wanted to scope it out.

 

My pace, warmup and start methodology is derived from my experience in Historics with BIG cars, even bigger than Cups, R's and RSR's. Specifically, Can-Am, IMSA GTP and WSC, FIA Group C and Historic Grand Prix cars. In most cases, there are multiple instances of how this procedure can be done to minimize the risk of an incident. Nearly always, when the ambient temps are low, there are two pace laps. Not saying that would have fixed anything here, but its a useful data point. Heck, Historic Grand Prix gets a few warm up laps on their own before the grid is formed...

 

Granted I drive a entry level car that couldn't spin the tires on ice but, regardless of the speed of the pace car doesn't it follow that I'm "pilot in command" and it's my responsibility to keep my car under control? The guy driving the pace car as well as his shotgun are both very experienced at RA. I will go futher out on the limb and say that the track was dry in that area as it was around most of the track. I was out there for the 25 lap sprint race about an hour or so before group 3 and there was no precipitation between our race an group 3. Guy made a bad mistake, feel badly for all of the torn up cars.

 

Yes it is our duty to keep in control. But we are out there to have a good time AND to try to win. The line between being safe and not losing race position is TOO FINE when we don't have the opportunity to warm up our tires properly. It's easy to crash when you don't even do anything wrong on cold slicks in a cup.

Proper pace lap speeds, and an extra pace lap in cold/wet conditions are NECESSARY and this should be in the rule book.

 

I had heard that swerving does very little to warm up your tires, although it may clear the crud off of them.

What about quick accelerations and and slow downs with left foot braking on the pace lap to warm up the tires and the rotors. Doesn't that help?

 

This is what David Murray suggested at the Driver's Meeting. He said this is much more effective than swerving at both warming the tires and the brakes.

 

It is the way to do it, however...

Given a snail slow pace car, bunching in the group, a cold track and one pace lap, it is virtualy impossible to get tires up to a reasonable operating temp.

(I also wouldn't want to be in the middle of a pack with a few people stabbing their cold brakes with their left foot if they're not entirely practiced at it...some can, some can't and some shouldn't even try once)

 

Yup. As has been discussed in this forum MANY times.

 

Oh.... I guess I should read more carefully. Thank goodness I don't have to read very well to make a living...

 

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

One change that could help is throw the green further down the front straight closer to turn 1. NASA SE did this when I was there two weeks ago. That way most of the field is on the front straight when the green drops.