NASA SPEC BOXSTER D.O.A.!!!
02-23-2012, 09:45 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Hunt,
PTD is a slam dunk. But you have a nose that costs you points and the rear bumper mods cost you points. Like I said before, sit down with me and your form and it is a piece of cake to do.
BTW: For GTS2 why can't I do Aero? Only thing stopping me is $$. Depending on how I do in GTS2 out of the gate I will figure out a front aero solution that is as simple as swapping the nose and for the rear it should bolt on either onto a spare decklid or an aftermarket decklid that accepts the uprights (this gets $$ real fast unless you make it all yourself). I think onefast viking has the correct rear wing solution from the pics that I can see.
PTD is a slam dunk. But you have a nose that costs you points and the rear bumper mods cost you points. Like I said before, sit down with me and your form and it is a piece of cake to do.
BTW: For GTS2 why can't I do Aero? Only thing stopping me is $$. Depending on how I do in GTS2 out of the gate I will figure out a front aero solution that is as simple as swapping the nose and for the rear it should bolt on either onto a spare decklid or an aftermarket decklid that accepts the uprights (this gets $$ real fast unless you make it all yourself). I think onefast viking has the correct rear wing solution from the pics that I can see.
I still don't think you would be able to beat a purpose built GTS2 car in an SPB with just some aero. With no diff, and no open suspension I am sorry to say it would be easy to build a GTS2 only car to beat the SPB.
With that being said, I can't see NASA just walking away from such a large potential revenue stream. I could see them walking away from the bad partnership they made when they originally purchased the "Spec Boxster" name, rights, etc. Once clear of this bad partnership I could see them creating a new place for the cars, I truly hope that is their plan which they are not currently not able to share completely.
But in the meantime, from their National Website, email these top officials with your thoughts. Below are email addresses for John Lindsey and Jerry Kunzman, you can email the rest from this link to NASA's internal mail server, just go to link and click on the name you want to email to.
http://www.nasaproracing.com/aboutnasa/regions.html
National Officers
Executive Director: Jerry Kunzman
jerry@drivenasa.com
Chief Divisional Director: John Lindsey
jlindsey@drivenasa.com
National Chairman: Ryan Flaherty
Director of Sponsorship: Jeremy Croiset
Business Operations Manager: Dave Ho
Vice President, Marketing: Greg Gill
National Event Manager:Will Faules
National Office
National Auto Sport Assn.
P.O. Box 2366
Napa Valley, CA 94558
Tel. 510-232-NASA (6272)
Tel. 804-591-0421
Fax. 510-277-0657
02-23-2012, 09:58 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
02-23-2012, 09:58 AM
#20
Track Day
Join Date: Nov 2009
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This really does smell rotten. I expressed my concerns well over a year ago about the way the rules were written and who was in charge of them. They could've made a couple of simple changes and made this right with no problems. My only hope is that doing it this way is a plan to break away from one person and adopt the PCA rule set.
I was just about to announce an incentive for this class to join NASA Texas at a couple of events this year. I spoke to some Spec Boxster racers at TWS and invited them to the April TWS event. If that worked out I was hoping to have a good group at Hallett. We were going to offer a $130 entry fee discount to offset the cost of a NASA membership and license. Actually, we still can, I would love to have these cars come as a guest group to one of our events. I fully understand if there are hard feelings toward NASA, but, not all of us associated with the sanctioning body agree with this decision. If any of you are interested, please contact me directly.
Clifton Winkleman
Race Director NASA Texas
two five four, 644, Nine 3 ten
wacoracer27 (at) yahoo (dot) com
I was just about to announce an incentive for this class to join NASA Texas at a couple of events this year. I spoke to some Spec Boxster racers at TWS and invited them to the April TWS event. If that worked out I was hoping to have a good group at Hallett. We were going to offer a $130 entry fee discount to offset the cost of a NASA membership and license. Actually, we still can, I would love to have these cars come as a guest group to one of our events. I fully understand if there are hard feelings toward NASA, but, not all of us associated with the sanctioning body agree with this decision. If any of you are interested, please contact me directly.
Clifton Winkleman
Race Director NASA Texas
two five four, 644, Nine 3 ten
wacoracer27 (at) yahoo (dot) com
02-23-2012, 10:00 AM
#21
Rennlist Member
02-23-2012, 10:21 AM
#22
The Penguin King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
This really does smell rotten. I expressed my concerns well over a year ago about the way the rules were written and who was in charge of them. They could've made a couple of simple changes and made this right with no problems. My only hope is that doing it this way is a plan to break away from one person and adopt the PCA rule set.
I was just about to announce an incentive for this class to join NASA Texas at a couple of events this year. I spoke to some Spec Boxster racers at TWS and invited them to the April TWS event. If that worked out I was hoping to have a good group at Hallett. We were going to offer a $130 entry fee discount to offset the cost of a NASA membership and license. Actually, we still can, I would love to have these cars come as a guest group to one of our events. I fully understand if there are hard feelings toward NASA, but, not all of us associated with the sanctioning body agree with this decision. If any of you are interested, please contact me directly.
Clifton Winkleman
Race Director NASA Texas
two five four, 644, Nine 3 ten
wacoracer27 (at) yahoo (dot) com
I was just about to announce an incentive for this class to join NASA Texas at a couple of events this year. I spoke to some Spec Boxster racers at TWS and invited them to the April TWS event. If that worked out I was hoping to have a good group at Hallett. We were going to offer a $130 entry fee discount to offset the cost of a NASA membership and license. Actually, we still can, I would love to have these cars come as a guest group to one of our events. I fully understand if there are hard feelings toward NASA, but, not all of us associated with the sanctioning body agree with this decision. If any of you are interested, please contact me directly.
Clifton Winkleman
Race Director NASA Texas
two five four, 644, Nine 3 ten
wacoracer27 (at) yahoo (dot) com
02-23-2012, 10:27 AM
#23
Race Director
Some people say that NASA does not listen. I have found that they do listen, but what they listen to are $$$$$. That means entries. NASA is a very simple organization if you understand that they are a business not a club.
02-23-2012, 10:35 AM
#24
Race Director
There's really no reason why folks can't come out, run as GTS2, and race against each other in an adhoc SpecBox group using the same rules as PCA. If you build up enough racers that way, NASA might then agree to adopt the PCA rules. NASA TX is a great group to race with, and the Texas SpecBox community is strong. Seems like a win-win to me.
Then work from with in to push the class back. It may take a period of running a class with in a class, but if you cannot show entires at races you will not have any leg to stand on. The more cars per event the better.
02-23-2012, 10:48 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
I agree. If you boxster guys pack up and don't run NASA you will be taking away entry fees and taking away your power. Show up an run and show that you support NASA. Also show your local regional director that you will support their events as if you don't show up the guy you hurt the most is the guy that runs your region.
Then work from with in to push the class back. It may take a period of running a class with in a class, but if you cannot show entires at races you will not have any leg to stand on. The more cars per event the better.
Then work from with in to push the class back. It may take a period of running a class with in a class, but if you cannot show entires at races you will not have any leg to stand on. The more cars per event the better.
While I agree with what you say here, Texas is a little different, they have 30+ Spec Boxsters in the area. PCA SPB races bring out 20 car SPB fields. NASA saw this and tried to get the business, but some options on rule set created a rift between a few people and it's never really recovered. It was stupid, because both sides suffered, but it was what happened.
On a positive note !
One of the NASA Tx officials recently came out to a well attended PCA event trying to talk to the racers and seemed to make some great progress. They even were working on an incentive ($$) to get the SPB racers to come to a NASA event and try it out.
I would have to say NASA Texas is trying all the right things, now if NASA National gets on board all will be good. I am sure there have already been multiple calls and emails made to those at National that have the power, but please still send your email in too because there is strength in the number of racers supporting this. Add a picture of your car in your email to them, it can't hurt ! And all car guys love looking at someone else's ride.
02-23-2012, 10:59 AM
#26
Race Director
944 spec has been good class for 10 years in NASA, but it has not been without its struggles over the years. Attendance and strong committed leadership have been the keys to it. We have been able to get attendance by having good solid rule set and having guys in each region willing champion the effort to the local drivers and be able insulate the rank and file from politics end of things. Most racers just want to show up and race and have a good time and don't want to deal with political situations. That is fine, but you do need at least few willing to work behind the scenes to make things happen. I have no idea on how the spec boxster class was organized.
02-23-2012, 11:41 AM
#27
Rennlist Member
You have a 996 nose not a boxster nose. Thus that costs you points in PTD/TTD as well as the rear bumper cut out.
The GTS2 thing remains to be seen. I plan to give it a go. Also what is uncompetitive?? Top 4 out of the gate?
Yes to SCCA !
The GTS2 thing remains to be seen. I plan to give it a go. Also what is uncompetitive?? Top 4 out of the gate?
Yes to SCCA !
02-23-2012, 11:57 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
@Hunt
BTW: I just looked at my notes/results from my TTD outing last year. I turned a 1:24.5 at Summit Point with used Hoosiers and a running weight of 2850lbs.
Looking at the NASA Mid Atlantic results for last year at Summit puts a Spec Boxster on the podium or at worst in 4th nearly every time. In fact in at least 4 of the 6 races, that lap time crushes the 2nd place finisher and gave you a shot at first 2x.
How is that uncompetitive? The weight in GTS2 trim will drop closer to 2650 depending on the actual dyno result and a more optimized alignment can only help. I don't see why we can't go out with NASA and at least use our race cars for what they were built to do... race.
I can simply swap tires and realign the car for PCA. I align the car for every race anyway. That does not sound like too much rework to me.
BTW: I just looked at my notes/results from my TTD outing last year. I turned a 1:24.5 at Summit Point with used Hoosiers and a running weight of 2850lbs.
Looking at the NASA Mid Atlantic results for last year at Summit puts a Spec Boxster on the podium or at worst in 4th nearly every time. In fact in at least 4 of the 6 races, that lap time crushes the 2nd place finisher and gave you a shot at first 2x.
How is that uncompetitive? The weight in GTS2 trim will drop closer to 2650 depending on the actual dyno result and a more optimized alignment can only help. I don't see why we can't go out with NASA and at least use our race cars for what they were built to do... race.
I can simply swap tires and realign the car for PCA. I align the car for every race anyway. That does not sound like too much rework to me.
02-23-2012, 12:10 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Charlie,
Nothing to be hidden.
NASA acquired the rights to a rules organization (the one guy, actually a few) for Spec Boxster. That organization was trying to level set the Spec Boxster rules across PBOC, NASA and PCA.
The PCA Spec Boxster field grew, NASA not so much. Last year there was a conflict wherein PCA said we listen to our drivers and take rules input from them not you (the rules org now from NASA).
The rules org folks decided to close down since the main group with cars (PCA) wouldn't bow to their influence. Rules org got pissed and shut themselves down. NASA now has now rules org for Spec Boxster when they simply could have just pointed themselves to PCA and dropped the Spec Boxster class.
That is how I saw happen. Anybody can feel free to embellish.
Nothing to be hidden.
NASA acquired the rights to a rules organization (the one guy, actually a few) for Spec Boxster. That organization was trying to level set the Spec Boxster rules across PBOC, NASA and PCA.
The PCA Spec Boxster field grew, NASA not so much. Last year there was a conflict wherein PCA said we listen to our drivers and take rules input from them not you (the rules org now from NASA).
The rules org folks decided to close down since the main group with cars (PCA) wouldn't bow to their influence. Rules org got pissed and shut themselves down. NASA now has now rules org for Spec Boxster when they simply could have just pointed themselves to PCA and dropped the Spec Boxster class.
That is how I saw happen. Anybody can feel free to embellish.