Notices
Racing & Drivers Education Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

ASK THE COACH

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-13-2013, 03:43 PM
  #1306  
Veloce Raptor
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Veloce Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Guess...
Posts: 41,779
Received 1,590 Likes on 830 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Larry Herman
Scott, you may be the exception and are crediting others for skills that they have not yet developed. A softer sprung car with street tires has a very large operating window of adhesion, is very tolerant of imprecise inputs, and literally shouts at you when it is at the limit of grip. As you stiffen the suspension and upgrade the tires, that window gets smaller, the speeds get higher, things happen faster and now the car just talks to you. 1500 lbs springs and race rubber make that window a slit, the steering wheel inputs have to be made quickly in response to the constantly changing levels of grip, events happen immediately and now the car just whispers to you. If you haven't developed the skill to listen carefully, you'll never hear it (or see it coming). That's why you need to start slowly and softly, to develop your ability to "listen" to what the car tells you. A handful have it right away, most do not, and quite a few never get it, ever.
+1

Originally Posted by Larry Herman
I can agree with that, but have to caution that it does not apply as you move up the model years. I would not advocate changing anything (accept alignment) on a newer Cayman or 997 until the driver becomes quite proficient.
+2

Originally Posted by TXE36
Attached is a crappy cropped iPhone picture from the T3 bridge. The wall at the left was a straight line before the hit. Note the white foam to the left of it. The road in the upper left is the road from Tunnel 2 to the lower and upper paddocks.

That car was racing the following day.

-Mike
It is no coincidence that the track put the air fence right there...
Old 05-13-2013, 05:55 PM
  #1307  
Cheyenne
Instructor
 
Cheyenne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, CA.
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
Lots of folks driving point-to-point through there, irrespective of the track terrain & geometry & what the Ops Manager said.
What does point-to-point mean in this context?


I love corners like that...The worse the terrain, the more I can learn from it.
Old 05-13-2013, 06:21 PM
  #1308  
Veloce Raptor
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Veloce Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Guess...
Posts: 41,779
Received 1,590 Likes on 830 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Cheyenne
What does point-to-point mean in this context?


I love corners like that...The worse the terrain, the more I can learn from it.
In this case, folks saw red & white curbing, and drove curb to curb w/o exception. Sometimes that can work, but in this section of COTA, it introduces way too much steering angle & drama than is needed or even survivable, and that caught a lot of folks out.
Old 05-13-2013, 06:47 PM
  #1309  
Gary R.
Rennlist Member
 
Gary R.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Valencia, Spain
Posts: 15,585
Received 272 Likes on 166 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Jenner
Would love constructive criticism on how to SAFELY improve at Lime Rock from the resident coaches. My PCA instructors tell me what I already know; I brake too soon and too hard and that I have been taught the "DE line" for years. I am transitioning to the race line but that is a work in progress.

I will be the first to admit I am being overly cautious as I can't "win" DE and I am not trailering, so I need to be able to drive home at the end of the day. I was given an opportunity to hire Simon Kirkby to coach me this coming weekend so hopefully that helps as well. Thanks for any insights/feedback provided!
Looks like a lot of Coasting, be much better if you had some sort of data overlay, at least G's.
Old 05-14-2013, 10:09 AM
  #1310  
hf1
Rennlist Member
 
hf1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 10,392
Likes: 0
Received 1,639 Likes on 1,122 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Jenner
Would love constructive criticism on how to SAFELY improve at Lime Rock from the resident coaches. My PCA instructors tell me what I already know; I brake too soon and too hard and that I have been taught the "DE line" for years. I am transitioning to the race line but that is a work in progress.

I will be the first to admit I am being overly cautious as I can't "win" DE and I am not trailering, so I need to be able to drive home at the end of the day. I was given an opportunity to hire Simon Kirkby to coach me this coming weekend so hopefully that helps as well. Thanks for any insights/feedback provided!

You are smooth and your line is OK but, IMO you are driving at 8/10 -- an example for type (1) driving I mentioned before in this thread. Braking too much, getting on throttle too late. You don't come close to exploring the edge of adhesion, and seeing/learning what happens beyond it. Also, your hand-grip is too strong which points to apprehension about what happens if you accidentally cross the 9/10 line. IMO, the RS may be too much car (both in setup and, judging from your YT comment, price) for you at this point in your learning journey.

Watch this kid and think how long it will take before you can comfortably throw your RS around like he does this MX-5. Watch his hand-grip and hand-work.



Since you're close to LRP, may not be a bad idea to take Skip Barber's 3-day (MX-5) racing school. Or, for DE, get yourself a Boxster/Cayman S -- stock on street tires with max track alignment -- and work your lap time down to 1:02 in it. These options would be the fastest way to achieve a sub-minute LRP lap time in your RS, IMO.
Old 05-15-2013, 10:50 PM
  #1311  
Veloce Raptor
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Veloce Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Guess...
Posts: 41,779
Received 1,590 Likes on 830 Posts
Default

An excellent video from Dion von Moltke about what he is thinking about and trying to accomplish during an ALMS test session at Laguna Seca. Excellent advice for pros and amateurs alike:

Old 05-16-2013, 09:13 AM
  #1312  
hf1
Rennlist Member
 
hf1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 10,392
Likes: 0
Received 1,639 Likes on 1,122 Posts
Default

Not sure if this has already been posted but here's on-board with Patrick Long at Lime Rock, with comments. Amazing hand-work:

Old 05-16-2013, 09:49 AM
  #1313  
hf1
Rennlist Member
 
hf1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 10,392
Likes: 0
Received 1,639 Likes on 1,122 Posts
Default

Jenner, I posted this a while ago in another thread but here's onboard with yours truly at Limerock during a Skip Barber MX-5 race last year -- on street tires. Slo-mo version of Patrick Long's action above (especially the three-wide pass down main straight at 4:45) . Watch:

- the line
- how I try to brake as late and as little as possible (Each unnecessary loss of momentum is much more costly in a low-powered car.)
- how I try to get on throttle as early as possible
- how hand-work (car control) allows me to explore those limits

[Spoiler: I won . Most passing action is in the first 13mins. The rest is just keeping things safe at P1 until the finish.]

Old 05-30-2013, 12:40 AM
  #1314  
tahoelife
Racer
 
tahoelife's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Lake Tahoe
Posts: 262
Received 7 Likes on 7 Posts
Default

This past weekend DE/TT these are not my best laps but best ones I have video of and they are close as my pb was a 2:07.1 and in this video I do a 7.6 with traffic and mistakes. I know I "over" drove the car a bit as the cayman I catch in the end is our cdi my friend and coach who is really good his tires went off and he was kind enough to watch from behind for a bit to help me learn so let the advice begin I know I am causing power on understeer coming out of the slow corners. I did however set a track record for my class car

Last edited by tahoelife; 05-30-2013 at 12:48 AM. Reason: video loading wrong
Old 05-30-2013, 11:20 PM
  #1315  
Veloce Raptor
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Veloce Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Guess...
Posts: 41,779
Received 1,590 Likes on 830 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by hf1
Jenner, I posted this a while ago in another thread but here's onboard with yours truly at Limerock during a Skip Barber MX-5 race last year -- on street tires. Slo-mo version of Patrick Long's action above (especially the three-wide pass down main straight at 4:45) . Watch:

- the line
- how I try to brake as late and as little as possible (Each unnecessary loss of momentum is much more costly in a low-powered car.)
- how I try to get on throttle as early as possible
- how hand-work (car control) allows me to explore those limits

[Spoiler: I won . Most passing action is in the first 13mins. The rest is just keeping things safe at P1 until the finish.]
Hmmm. Nicely done. However, I am concerned by something: it appears that in all your banzai divebomb passes into T1, you never glance in your rear view or right side mirrors to be sure you can move over to the inside... Is this just the camera angle fooling us?
Old 05-31-2013, 12:18 AM
  #1316  
hf1
Rennlist Member
 
hf1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 10,392
Likes: 0
Received 1,639 Likes on 1,122 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
Hmmm. Nicely done. However, I am concerned by something: it appears that in all your banzai divebomb passes into T1, you never glance in your rear view or right side mirrors to be sure you can move over to the inside... Is this just the camera angle fooling us?
Thanks. Which passes in particular?

As to situational awareness, in general, with low HP / momentum cars (of equal power/setup) things are relatively predictable after turns onto long straights. With a couple of quick glances, its fairly easy to discern the exit speed differential between cars and to extrapolate the physical outcomes that could possibly develop on the main straight before T1 (i.e. who's likely or able to draft/pass whom). I was well aware of my surroundings at all times during the race and am pretty sure I didn't block/startle anyone behind me. It's probably the camera angle.

Coming out of the draft may seem abrupt and unexpected on occasion but draft passing is more effective when the passer breaks the draft quickly which slows the passed car a bit just at the right moment (especially in low HP cars). I'm still working on this technique, of course.

Overall, I'd say Skip judges/instructors are pretty strict about both illegal (divebomb) passing and blocking. I'm sure I'd have been warned or black-flagged if I had done any of those.

The closest thing to a potential divebomb was at 9:45 before the uphill. I definitely had a good exit speed advantage onto 'No Name Straight' but capitalizing on it before the uphill would have been a bit of a stretch (not long enough of a straight), so I was prepared for the door to be slammed in front of me (which it did).
Old 05-31-2013, 07:36 AM
  #1317  
Veloce Raptor
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Veloce Raptor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Guess...
Posts: 41,779
Received 1,590 Likes on 830 Posts
Default

OK. It may benefit you, if you choose to continue racing, to check mirrors just before a move anyway, no matter what, and despite any assumptions of the proximity of other cars. I suspect at least one of the cars you went by at 4:45 in T1 was not aware of or expecting you there, and probably assumed you were far enough back to not warrant even a glance. Just some friendly advice...
Old 05-31-2013, 10:29 AM
  #1318  
hf1
Rennlist Member
 
hf1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 10,392
Likes: 0
Received 1,639 Likes on 1,122 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Veloce Raptor
Just some friendly advice...
VR, well taken and appreciated. I do check my mirrors but will be checking them some more going forward.

On the 'three wide' pass into T1... First, there was no one behind me close enough and with any speed diff to even attempt a move. I know the guys in #15 and #47 who were in front of me -- we've all gone 'three wide' into T1 without a problem before.

The way I saw it, #15 knew that #47 had him on exit speed diff out of the downhill and on draft on the main straight. Additionally, #47 knew I had him, too. He was well aware that I was going for a pass which is why he left the car-width space for me to his right. I think #15 may also have thought about passing the car in front of him but didn't have the speed diff or commitment to do it so that car simply blocked both #15 and #47 well before T1. #15 went around the blocker on the outside -- #47 chickened out, slammed the brakes, and jerked to the right which startled me for a moment. It wasn't me that startled him from behind.

Pls take a look again and let me know if you see the situation differently. Really appreciate your view/advice.
Old 06-02-2013, 09:13 PM
  #1319  
Vonschmidt
Rennlist Member
 
Vonschmidt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

For a SPB what are the thoughts on rain tires. 255 square or 235 on front. 255 rear.
Old 06-03-2013, 01:25 PM
  #1320  
cavlino
Rennlist Member
 
cavlino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,297
Received 13 Likes on 12 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Vonschmidt
For a SPB what are the thoughts on rain tires. 255 square or 235 on front. 255 rear.
The factory has a spec for Winter Tire sizes which are 225/40-18 and 265/35-18 for the 6GT3 that is also what I use for Street/Rain driving since I don't drive my car in the Winter In the Wet a narrower tire is better...


Quick Reply: ASK THE COACH



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 03:40 PM.