ASK THE COACH
#1306
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41,898
Likes: 1,737
From: All Ate Up With Motor
Scott, you may be the exception and are crediting others for skills that they have not yet developed. A softer sprung car with street tires has a very large operating window of adhesion, is very tolerant of imprecise inputs, and literally shouts at you when it is at the limit of grip. As you stiffen the suspension and upgrade the tires, that window gets smaller, the speeds get higher, things happen faster and now the car just talks to you. 1500 lbs springs and race rubber make that window a slit, the steering wheel inputs have to be made quickly in response to the constantly changing levels of grip, events happen immediately and now the car just whispers to you. If you haven't developed the skill to listen carefully, you'll never hear it (or see it coming). That's why you need to start slowly and softly, to develop your ability to "listen" to what the car tells you. A handful have it right away, most do not, and quite a few never get it, ever.
Attached is a crappy cropped iPhone picture from the T3 bridge. The wall at the left was a straight line before the hit. Note the white foam to the left of it. The road in the upper left is the road from Tunnel 2 to the lower and upper paddocks.
That car was racing the following day.
-Mike
That car was racing the following day.
-Mike
#1307
#1308
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41,898
Likes: 1,737
From: All Ate Up With Motor
In this case, folks saw red & white curbing, and drove curb to curb w/o exception. Sometimes that can work, but in this section of COTA, it introduces way too much steering angle & drama than is needed or even survivable, and that caught a lot of folks out.
#1309
Would love constructive criticism on how to SAFELY improve at Lime Rock from the resident coaches. My PCA instructors tell me what I already know; I brake too soon and too hard and that I have been taught the "DE line" for years. I am transitioning to the race line but that is a work in progress.
I will be the first to admit I am being overly cautious as I can't "win" DE and I am not trailering, so I need to be able to drive home at the end of the day. I was given an opportunity to hire Simon Kirkby to coach me this coming weekend so hopefully that helps as well. Thanks for any insights/feedback provided!
I will be the first to admit I am being overly cautious as I can't "win" DE and I am not trailering, so I need to be able to drive home at the end of the day. I was given an opportunity to hire Simon Kirkby to coach me this coming weekend so hopefully that helps as well. Thanks for any insights/feedback provided!
#1310
Would love constructive criticism on how to SAFELY improve at Lime Rock from the resident coaches. My PCA instructors tell me what I already know; I brake too soon and too hard and that I have been taught the "DE line" for years. I am transitioning to the race line but that is a work in progress.
I will be the first to admit I am being overly cautious as I can't "win" DE and I am not trailering, so I need to be able to drive home at the end of the day. I was given an opportunity to hire Simon Kirkby to coach me this coming weekend so hopefully that helps as well. Thanks for any insights/feedback provided!
I will be the first to admit I am being overly cautious as I can't "win" DE and I am not trailering, so I need to be able to drive home at the end of the day. I was given an opportunity to hire Simon Kirkby to coach me this coming weekend so hopefully that helps as well. Thanks for any insights/feedback provided!
Watch this kid and think how long it will take before you can comfortably throw your RS around like he does this MX-5. Watch his hand-grip and hand-work.
Since you're close to LRP, may not be a bad idea to take Skip Barber's 3-day (MX-5) racing school. Or, for DE, get yourself a Boxster/Cayman S -- stock on street tires with max track alignment -- and work your lap time down to 1:02 in it. These options would be the fastest way to achieve a sub-minute LRP lap time in your RS, IMO.
#1311
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41,898
Likes: 1,737
From: All Ate Up With Motor
An excellent video from Dion von Moltke about what he is thinking about and trying to accomplish during an ALMS test session at Laguna Seca. Excellent advice for pros and amateurs alike:
#1313
Jenner, I posted this a while ago in another thread but here's onboard with yours truly at Limerock during a Skip Barber MX-5 race last year -- on street tires. Slo-mo version of Patrick Long's action above (especially the three-wide pass down main straight at 4:45) . Watch:
- the line
- how I try to brake as late and as little as possible (Each unnecessary loss of momentum is much more costly in a low-powered car.)
- how I try to get on throttle as early as possible
- how hand-work (car control) allows me to explore those limits
[Spoiler: I won . Most passing action is in the first 13mins. The rest is just keeping things safe at P1 until the finish.]
- the line
- how I try to brake as late and as little as possible (Each unnecessary loss of momentum is much more costly in a low-powered car.)
- how I try to get on throttle as early as possible
- how hand-work (car control) allows me to explore those limits
[Spoiler: I won . Most passing action is in the first 13mins. The rest is just keeping things safe at P1 until the finish.]
#1314
This past weekend DE/TT these are not my best laps but best ones I have video of and they are close as my pb was a 2:07.1 and in this video I do a 7.6 with traffic and mistakes. I know I "over" drove the car a bit as the cayman I catch in the end is our cdi my friend and coach who is really good his tires went off and he was kind enough to watch from behind for a bit to help me learn so let the advice begin I know I am causing power on understeer coming out of the slow corners. I did however set a track record for my class car
Last edited by tahoelife; 05-30-2013 at 12:48 AM. Reason: video loading wrong
#1315
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41,898
Likes: 1,737
From: All Ate Up With Motor
Jenner, I posted this a while ago in another thread but here's onboard with yours truly at Limerock during a Skip Barber MX-5 race last year -- on street tires. Slo-mo version of Patrick Long's action above (especially the three-wide pass down main straight at 4:45) . Watch:
- the line
- how I try to brake as late and as little as possible (Each unnecessary loss of momentum is much more costly in a low-powered car.)
- how I try to get on throttle as early as possible
- how hand-work (car control) allows me to explore those limits
[Spoiler: I won . Most passing action is in the first 13mins. The rest is just keeping things safe at P1 until the finish.]
- the line
- how I try to brake as late and as little as possible (Each unnecessary loss of momentum is much more costly in a low-powered car.)
- how I try to get on throttle as early as possible
- how hand-work (car control) allows me to explore those limits
[Spoiler: I won . Most passing action is in the first 13mins. The rest is just keeping things safe at P1 until the finish.]
#1316
As to situational awareness, in general, with low HP / momentum cars (of equal power/setup) things are relatively predictable after turns onto long straights. With a couple of quick glances, its fairly easy to discern the exit speed differential between cars and to extrapolate the physical outcomes that could possibly develop on the main straight before T1 (i.e. who's likely or able to draft/pass whom). I was well aware of my surroundings at all times during the race and am pretty sure I didn't block/startle anyone behind me. It's probably the camera angle.
Coming out of the draft may seem abrupt and unexpected on occasion but draft passing is more effective when the passer breaks the draft quickly which slows the passed car a bit just at the right moment (especially in low HP cars). I'm still working on this technique, of course.
Overall, I'd say Skip judges/instructors are pretty strict about both illegal (divebomb) passing and blocking. I'm sure I'd have been warned or black-flagged if I had done any of those.
The closest thing to a potential divebomb was at 9:45 before the uphill. I definitely had a good exit speed advantage onto 'No Name Straight' but capitalizing on it before the uphill would have been a bit of a stretch (not long enough of a straight), so I was prepared for the door to be slammed in front of me (which it did).
#1317
Thread Starter
Rennlist Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 41,898
Likes: 1,737
From: All Ate Up With Motor
OK. It may benefit you, if you choose to continue racing, to check mirrors just before a move anyway, no matter what, and despite any assumptions of the proximity of other cars. I suspect at least one of the cars you went by at 4:45 in T1 was not aware of or expecting you there, and probably assumed you were far enough back to not warrant even a glance. Just some friendly advice...
#1318
VR, well taken and appreciated. I do check my mirrors but will be checking them some more going forward.
On the 'three wide' pass into T1... First, there was no one behind me close enough and with any speed diff to even attempt a move. I know the guys in #15 and #47 who were in front of me -- we've all gone 'three wide' into T1 without a problem before.
The way I saw it, #15 knew that #47 had him on exit speed diff out of the downhill and on draft on the main straight. Additionally, #47 knew I had him, too. He was well aware that I was going for a pass which is why he left the car-width space for me to his right. I think #15 may also have thought about passing the car in front of him but didn't have the speed diff or commitment to do it so that car simply blocked both #15 and #47 well before T1. #15 went around the blocker on the outside -- #47 chickened out, slammed the brakes, and jerked to the right which startled me for a moment. It wasn't me that startled him from behind.
Pls take a look again and let me know if you see the situation differently. Really appreciate your view/advice.
On the 'three wide' pass into T1... First, there was no one behind me close enough and with any speed diff to even attempt a move. I know the guys in #15 and #47 who were in front of me -- we've all gone 'three wide' into T1 without a problem before.
The way I saw it, #15 knew that #47 had him on exit speed diff out of the downhill and on draft on the main straight. Additionally, #47 knew I had him, too. He was well aware that I was going for a pass which is why he left the car-width space for me to his right. I think #15 may also have thought about passing the car in front of him but didn't have the speed diff or commitment to do it so that car simply blocked both #15 and #47 well before T1. #15 went around the blocker on the outside -- #47 chickened out, slammed the brakes, and jerked to the right which startled me for a moment. It wasn't me that startled him from behind.
Pls take a look again and let me know if you see the situation differently. Really appreciate your view/advice.
#1320
The factory has a spec for Winter Tire sizes which are 225/40-18 and 265/35-18 for the 6GT3 that is also what I use for Street/Rain driving since I don't drive my car in the Winter In the Wet a narrower tire is better...