Circuit Motorsports

Don't remember seeing that in the DE minimum standards. If that's the case then it's a regional thing, not PCA.

While passengers and whatnot are limited, I can't see the way they'd not allow compensated instruction.

Veloce Raptor

You're right, Joe, it is not in there. It is regional. and the more I think about it & look at my coaching schedule over the last few years, the more I realize it is 100% regional. Some regions allow private coaches for instructors (with approval), some allow private coaches for instructors & advanced students (with approval), and some do not allow any individual private coaching of any kind.

Circuit Motorsports

You'd think that some regions would be happy to get an extra coach, especially if they're a known quantity. Always seem to be looking for more instructors.

Veloce Raptor

IMO the "known quantity" is the key. In addition, a coach will be dedicated to his/her client(s), and pretty much unavailable to be considered a regular instructor. And finally, as has become policy with 2 regions in my area, some regions don't want to permit the impression that their instructor corps is subpar, and to REALLY learn to drive, a paying customer needs to hire his/her own coach.

Matt Romanowski

That's surprising to hear that regions consider it a "dig" against their instructor corps. There is always someone better - even Tiger Woods, at the top of his game, had a coach. All pro drivers work with someone, whether it's a coach or an engineer. Bringing in someone from the outside is more about having someone at a higher level than saying the region instructors suck. I guess it will only keep them from increasing their skill set and abilities. Sucks to be them.

Veloce Raptor

Well......in leaner times, I can appreciate not wanting to create any negative impressions (real or perceived) among the paying customers. In addition, some regions go out of their way to avoid any "cult of personality" among instructors, and allowing a "pro" to come in from outside for a paying customer can only accentuate that. Not saying that I agree with this point of view (and how could I, since it directly affects my business), but it is out there.

TedA

Ed Zachary....and those of us who sit in the right hand seat sometimes need somebody smarter than us on occasion to make us better. Wink, wink, nudge nudge. I am a trained amatuer.

todinlaw

This is not directly related to my question but I have to put in my two cents. since I have taken the position of Track event chair for our region, every year we have put on some kine of instructor training program in our Region and Zone. the first year we did the national training program the next two years we did an advanced instructor training program that I did in conjunction with the Mid ohio school and brought in professional coaches to work with our instructors. Part of it was how to teach but most of it was how to drive. You can't teach advanced driving if you can't do it.

I am not trying to be condescending, but it was vary apparent to me that our instructor core was all over the place in terms of driving skill. Some who are at the top of the heap and others that frankly do not deserve instructor Status. The problem is its hard to Fire and instructor, politically just because they lack talent. Its hard to un-ring the bell as they say. So I have been working to raise the bar.

So we have been vary aggressive about bringing in coaches to help show new ideas and set an example. For the regions that will not let in coaches to work with drivers who are looking to work with someone are not going retain that person anyway. they will just go find what they are looking for someplace else.

Veloce Raptor

A big +1

Matt Romanowski

I'll second what you wrote with a +2. I've seen the ads for the instructor events your doing and they look awesome. I've been disappointed I haven't been able to come out to one!

bobt993

Our region allows coaching and it makes a big difference with the solo driver and instructor that is stuck at a level. Some years back, I started coordinating a pro coach to come in and work with a group of us. That has now made it possible for Larry and I to add the benefit directly to our region. Even some of the top drivers/instructors develop bad habits and are eager to extract the demons from their track time. I worked with a bunch of really fast drivers this year and just the smallest change in throttle or entry has dropped seconds off a lap. Don't let your ego prevent you from getting someone in the right seat. Instead of taking a passenger out to try and impress them consider putting a peer or better driver in the car that can raise your game. Frank is correct that the level of instruction varies a great deal in all regions. Just about all novice drivers will benefit from any instructor in the car, but as the speeds and ability increases it is paramount that the instructor functions at the highest skill level to help the student advance.

Veloce Raptor

Yup! In fact, I have coached in your region, as you'll recall. GREAT folks up ther,e very very cool & laid-back and fun. Still the all-time best DE drivers meetings I have ever experienced.

todinlaw

This is not meant to be a Rant, just an observation, one of my tasks in our events is to assist with putting drivers in run groups. We often get folks who have a higher opinion of there driving than what we observe. In our most advanced run group we often have driver who does not want an instructor in the car. We do not require it any more but offer it to everyone. Part of the issue could be that the instructors that we put in the car are not benefiting them. the other part of the equation is that some people do not think they need instruction.

This has been my focus is to figure this out, is it that my instructors and not able to help or is it the driver with an ego. Not always a clear answer, but one worth studying. If we only had the time, i would like to do objective annual evaluations of the instructors and drivers. Just not enough time.

I have been racing for two years now and have learned, I have allot to learn.

Veloce Raptor

Down here (Texas) we have a separate group of advanced instructors who work with & evaluate for promotion the customers in the highest run groups. One PCA region makes it mandatory thhat every advanced driver has an AI as a passenger once per DE weekend. The otther PCA region makes it voluntary & self-selecting, but the AI's walk around and make themselves very availabble. And generally it has worked very well...and the driving of these run groups has really elevated. In addition, there is much more consistency in promotions, with few to no "social promotions" any more ( a big problem in the past).

EDIT: by the wayy, Frank, I am sorry we didn't get to visit at Mid Ohio during the NASA weekend. I ended up very busy, and with the schedule & short run groups, I ended up hanging with my clients so as not to miss a session.

todinlaw

I know I was thinking the same thing. Race weekend can be hectic depending on how things are going for you. I understand completely. Plus you have to be focused when your at the track no matter what side of the car your sitting in.