ASK THE COACH
06-05-2019, 11:22 AM
#3152
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by FFaust
Excellent Dave, thanks!
Now, what about T9???
Now, what about T9???
06-05-2019, 01:14 PM
#3153
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
OK. T9. There are a million ways through there, and I'm not going to opine about a "right" way. But I will offer here some pointers to help maximize grip, chassis stability, confidence, and overall segment speed.
Again, topography & a track walk are our friends. People call T9 the "off camber" but it really isn't. It does have some camber at and near the apex but it rapidly flattens out the wider you go.It is an uphill brake zone that crests at the very end. Thus, gravity aids our braking, and we really don't need a lot of brake pressure here, relatively. Many people brake too late and or too hard here, and it kills them in the corner. Brake a bit early and softly, just enough to get the car to squat into the hill and give some bite to the front tires. Don't feel the need to be all the way track right before turning in. In fact, this can be counter-productive, since, again, the wider our you are, the less beneficial camber there is. If you're too wide, you'll kill the RF tire trying to get the car to turn in (in this regard, T9 is very similar to T6).
After T8 track out, I'll bring the car maybe 3/4 of the way drivers right as I initiate braking into the hill, and start rolling my hands into the apex of T9 relatively early, but sloooowly. My eyes at turn in are on the apex curb, looking for the far end of it. The goal is to get into the apex (where the best grip/camber is) soon, and hold it a bit before detaching. This is a common theme at the Glen, IMO: apexes that are elongated zones rather than spots.Once I am into the apex, my eyes go up to begin searching way down track for either one of the NASCAR brake marker signs before T10 or the blue roof of the T10 corner station. Either one is a great visual that puts your eyes where you want to go, rather than at the T9 track out and the very close Armco. You won't see either initially, but KEEP LOOKING. They will appear instantly, and focus your eyes and thus your hands on a proper exit arc.
As you begin detaching from the T9 apex, and are rolling on throttle, consciously begin sloooowly unwinding steering. Many many people hold steering there way too long, because they are looking at & are scared of the Armco. This is sub-optimal, and causes violent spins if the driver lifts even a little bit. Look way down track & begin unwinding early. You will use ALL the track at track out (but not the grass) and will be 100% wheels straight at track out. You should be 100% full power at this point...but even if you need to lift there (for a spun car, for example), since your wheels will be totally straight, nothing will happen!
Questions?
Again, topography & a track walk are our friends. People call T9 the "off camber" but it really isn't. It does have some camber at and near the apex but it rapidly flattens out the wider you go.It is an uphill brake zone that crests at the very end. Thus, gravity aids our braking, and we really don't need a lot of brake pressure here, relatively. Many people brake too late and or too hard here, and it kills them in the corner. Brake a bit early and softly, just enough to get the car to squat into the hill and give some bite to the front tires. Don't feel the need to be all the way track right before turning in. In fact, this can be counter-productive, since, again, the wider our you are, the less beneficial camber there is. If you're too wide, you'll kill the RF tire trying to get the car to turn in (in this regard, T9 is very similar to T6).
After T8 track out, I'll bring the car maybe 3/4 of the way drivers right as I initiate braking into the hill, and start rolling my hands into the apex of T9 relatively early, but sloooowly. My eyes at turn in are on the apex curb, looking for the far end of it. The goal is to get into the apex (where the best grip/camber is) soon, and hold it a bit before detaching. This is a common theme at the Glen, IMO: apexes that are elongated zones rather than spots.Once I am into the apex, my eyes go up to begin searching way down track for either one of the NASCAR brake marker signs before T10 or the blue roof of the T10 corner station. Either one is a great visual that puts your eyes where you want to go, rather than at the T9 track out and the very close Armco. You won't see either initially, but KEEP LOOKING. They will appear instantly, and focus your eyes and thus your hands on a proper exit arc.
As you begin detaching from the T9 apex, and are rolling on throttle, consciously begin sloooowly unwinding steering. Many many people hold steering there way too long, because they are looking at & are scared of the Armco. This is sub-optimal, and causes violent spins if the driver lifts even a little bit. Look way down track & begin unwinding early. You will use ALL the track at track out (but not the grass) and will be 100% wheels straight at track out. You should be 100% full power at this point...but even if you need to lift there (for a spun car, for example), since your wheels will be totally straight, nothing will happen!
Questions?
06-05-2019, 01:27 PM
#3154
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OK. T9. There are a million ways through there, and I'm not going to opine about a "right" way. But I will offer here some pointers to help maximize grip, chassis stability, confidence, and overall segment speed.
Again, topography & a track walk are our friends. People call T9 the "off camber" but it really isn't. It does have some camber at and near the apex but it rapidly flattens out the wider you go.It is an uphill brake zone that crests at the very end. Thus, gravity aids our braking, and we really don't need a lot of brake pressure here, relatively. Many people brake too late and or too hard here, and it kills them in the corner. Brake a bit early and softly, just enough to get the car to squat into the hill and give some bite to the front tires. Don't feel the need to be all the way track right before turning in. In fact, this can be counter-productive, since, again, the wider our you are, the less beneficial camber there is. If you're too wide, you'll kill the RF tire trying to get the car to turn in (in this regard, T9 is very similar to T6).
After T8 track out, I'll bring the car maybe 3/4 of the way drivers right as I initiate braking into the hill, and start rolling my hands into the apex of T9 relatively early, but sloooowly. My eyes at turn in are on the apex curb, looking for the far end of it. The goal is to get into the apex (where the best grip/camber is) soon, and hold it a bit before detaching. This is a common theme at the Glen, IMO: apexes that are elongated zones rather than spots.Once I am into the apex, my eyes go up to begin searching way down track for either one of the NASCAR brake marker signs before T10 or the blue roof of the T10 corner station. Either one is a great visual that puts your eyes where you want to go, rather than at the T9 track out and the very close Armco. You won't see either initially, but KEEP LOOKING. They will appear instantly, and focus your eyes and thus your hands on a proper exit arc.
As you begin detaching from the T9 apex, and are rolling on throttle, consciously begin sloooowly unwinding steering. Many many people hold steering there way too long, because they are looking at & are scared of the Armco. This is sub-optimal, and causes violent spins if the driver lifts even a little bit. Look way down track & begin unwinding early. You will use ALL the track at track out (but not the grass) and will be 100% wheels straight at track out. You should be 100% full power at this point...but even if you need to lift there (for a spun car, for example), since your wheels will be totally straight, nothing will happen!
Questions?
Again, topography & a track walk are our friends. People call T9 the "off camber" but it really isn't. It does have some camber at and near the apex but it rapidly flattens out the wider you go.It is an uphill brake zone that crests at the very end. Thus, gravity aids our braking, and we really don't need a lot of brake pressure here, relatively. Many people brake too late and or too hard here, and it kills them in the corner. Brake a bit early and softly, just enough to get the car to squat into the hill and give some bite to the front tires. Don't feel the need to be all the way track right before turning in. In fact, this can be counter-productive, since, again, the wider our you are, the less beneficial camber there is. If you're too wide, you'll kill the RF tire trying to get the car to turn in (in this regard, T9 is very similar to T6).
After T8 track out, I'll bring the car maybe 3/4 of the way drivers right as I initiate braking into the hill, and start rolling my hands into the apex of T9 relatively early, but sloooowly. My eyes at turn in are on the apex curb, looking for the far end of it. The goal is to get into the apex (where the best grip/camber is) soon, and hold it a bit before detaching. This is a common theme at the Glen, IMO: apexes that are elongated zones rather than spots.Once I am into the apex, my eyes go up to begin searching way down track for either one of the NASCAR brake marker signs before T10 or the blue roof of the T10 corner station. Either one is a great visual that puts your eyes where you want to go, rather than at the T9 track out and the very close Armco. You won't see either initially, but KEEP LOOKING. They will appear instantly, and focus your eyes and thus your hands on a proper exit arc.
As you begin detaching from the T9 apex, and are rolling on throttle, consciously begin sloooowly unwinding steering. Many many people hold steering there way too long, because they are looking at & are scared of the Armco. This is sub-optimal, and causes violent spins if the driver lifts even a little bit. Look way down track & begin unwinding early. You will use ALL the track at track out (but not the grass) and will be 100% wheels straight at track out. You should be 100% full power at this point...but even if you need to lift there (for a spun car, for example), since your wheels will be totally straight, nothing will happen!
Questions?
06-05-2019, 01:31 PM
#3155
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thank you
06-05-2019, 06:09 PM
#3156
Nordschleife Master
Thank you.
With a rear-engined car, it was easy to correct/tweak/steer with the throttle to hit the apex if you weren't perfectly on line. I now drive a Cayman and find that the car doesn't rotate as easily with the gas, so it's even more important to drive a proper/correct line into the corner in order to carry maximum speed. I have a tendency to be sloppy and to throw the car around too much, but I'm working on it.
In fact, that is my biggest challenge with the Cayman, carrying max speed. IOW, not braking too much, but I'm getting there.
With a rear-engined car, it was easy to correct/tweak/steer with the throttle to hit the apex if you weren't perfectly on line. I now drive a Cayman and find that the car doesn't rotate as easily with the gas, so it's even more important to drive a proper/correct line into the corner in order to carry maximum speed. I have a tendency to be sloppy and to throw the car around too much, but I'm working on it.
In fact, that is my biggest challenge with the Cayman, carrying max speed. IOW, not braking too much, but I'm getting there.
06-05-2019, 06:13 PM
#3157
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Think of your inputs this way: slow is smooth and smooth is fast . I learned this truism in my first career but it sure as heck also applies to performance driving on track!
06-05-2019, 07:15 PM
#3160
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Why do you say that? If you're at the limit and do something sudden or dramatic...how will it end?
06-05-2019, 07:55 PM
#3161
I am mostly talking about steering wheel inputs....at the limit quick corrections are often required. Regardless, slow isn't necessarily smooth. I have seen many top drivers making sudden and dramatic steering corrections to keep the car pointed in the direction they want. I think the goal is to have the car being fast and generally smooth regardless of what it looks like watching the driver drive.
Like the old saying that slow in is fast out. That's rubbish. Slow is slow. You want to be as fast as you can in without messing up your exit.
I think people tend to get caught up in these old sayings without really thinking about them.
A John Wooden saying that still applies: Be quick, but don't hurry.
Like the old saying that slow in is fast out. That's rubbish. Slow is slow. You want to be as fast as you can in without messing up your exit.
I think people tend to get caught up in these old sayings without really thinking about them.
A John Wooden saying that still applies: Be quick, but don't hurry.
06-05-2019, 09:12 PM
#3162
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well, I appreciate your input.
My point to Francois was that places like the Glen reward smooth and relatively slow turn ins and steering release to carry maximum momentum.
Have you been there?
My point to Francois was that places like the Glen reward smooth and relatively slow turn ins and steering release to carry maximum momentum.
Have you been there?
06-05-2019, 09:47 PM
#3163
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
It also means take your time. Don't rush. Don't be in a hurry of activity in the car. Don't surprise the car, because it will surely surprise you...
06-06-2019, 12:23 AM
#3164
Anyway, you made your statement sound like it applied everywhere and all the time. My point is that you have to be careful with clichés and statements that sound great but aren’t applicable in all situations all the time.
06-06-2019, 09:23 AM
#3165
Rennlist Member
I feel like VR is talking about the goal for primary inputs and winders is talking about what's needed for corrections and nobody is wrong but maybe because you are not talking about the same thing?