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I am currently coming in to the esses at very high speed; 4th at T10 entry and intoT11. A quick 4-3rd and then back on the throttle to catch the rear-end at the short shoot after T-11. Then I have to do all I can to brake hard and settle the rear down as it squirms into theT-11-T12 braking zone; downshift 3rd-2nd and on throttle before turn-in at T-12. T-12 is pretty slow at the apex. Too fast and you go wide and will have to delay full throttle or lift as you drift close to the wall at the front straight entry. 3rd gear seems out of the sweet spot for torque at T-12 exit, at least at my current mid-corner speed.
Are thinking that I might give up some entry speed at T-10-11 to get a better angle on T-12? The front straight is the most important to get right at PIR as it is the longest. If you are slow coming out of T-12 then you will be slow for quite a long distance.
Would an LSD help with the squirm in the T-11-12 braking zone? Would any shock changes soften the effect of throttle-off oversteer when I make the 2-3rd upshift at the entry to the front straight? Are there different transmission gearsets or diff ratio's that could be swapped in?
I attended the Pirelli Challenge this weekend and camped out at the exit of T-12. I noticed a couple of things. The guys that were going as wide as my line were some of the faster cars out there, but as you go wider there is a small dip in the track. You could see the suspension load and unload. (It was right after that spot that I would make my 2-3 upshift). Also, while some of the drivers did shift mid-corner; they had a dual-clutch/pdk setup... the shifts were so fast that it didn't allow for weight transfer to unsettle the rear end (unlike my nostalgic, slower shifting 6-speed manual gearbox).
It was kind of fun being a tourist at my home track. I bought a hat, a book and mingled with some old friends. My next track date is Aug 2nd. I'll really work on getting this right. Here's a few P-car pics:
i don't claim to be a pro or suggest you do what i do, but here's 2 in-car laps from practice at Portland in my car this weekend. it was my first time at the track, but maybe it'll help you...
Thank you for the post. If you watch, right at 1:11, there is a small bump. I never noticed it previously when driving... it's probably a bad place for my 2-3 up-shift; duh... btw: Nice driving this weekend!
Edit: I also noticed that you put your right front wheel up aggressively on the T12 curbing. This was also recommended to me by a seasoned driver. He thought that I might get further up onto the apex and be able to carry a bit more speed on the T-12 exit... it looks like a handful!
I don't have access to my hero, the F1-driver-whisperer Rob Wilson, so I'm posting this question here instead.
I'd be interested to hear you guys talk about the surprisingly different driving styles that Hamilton is using in the two clips below, one from Australia and one from Japan. In Australia, he is doing very little braking into the corner, whereas in Japan he is braking deep into the corner, close to the apex.
IMO, different tracks/corners, track conditions, tire conditions, vehicles and setup all dictate what driving style is appropriate. That's why there's an advantage to driving lots of different things at different places in different conditions. :-)
I’ve spent the last couple of months slowly making my way through this thread and wanted to say thanks to all the contributors. It’s fun to think that this thread started right about the time of my first track event. I don’t think my wife knew what we were getting into when she signed me up for my first Chin event. There has been a lot of really great information and some hilarious bantering as well. I also really appreciate all the practical advice...like sierralima putting tape across her windshield for keeping your vision up.
I have really invested and progressed since beginning DE and now have progressed into Red group with Chin at Barber, Rd Atlanta, Sebring, and NCM. I also have done 3 masters plus level PSDS driving schools. I think the thing that really clicked for me at the second PSDS was learning to trail brake and as Cass Whitehead told me “trust Goodyear” or in our case Pirelli.
I know Dave has emphasized in this thread the importance of learning to properly trail brake. One of the “exercises” they set up for us was a trail brake oversteer exercise. In a large parking area of Barber, they set up a curve with cones. Then in one of the Caymans with all the nannies turned off and on wasted tires we would speed toward the corner, hit the brakes and abruptly turn in to induce a spin and then try to control the spin with brake pedal only and counter steering. The goal was to drift around the curve as far as possible using brake modulation. The more brake, the less drift. Not enough and car spins. That exercise has helped immeasurably with not only car control, but also learning to gradually ease off the brake. I think that has been a turning point for me.
Another turning point was sitting down with Cass and comparing his data lap to mine. As Peter has emphasized all through this thread the deltas between what you think you are doing and what the data shows can be huge.
I am now interested in possibly working my way into actual racing. I am exploring options and trying to compare that to my schedule and budget. You guys have definitely convinced me that there’s benefit to personal coaching and that is probably going to be my next investment as I try to continue improving and growing.
I’ve spent the last couple of months slowly making my way through this thread and wanted to say thanks to all the contributors. It’s fun to think that this thread started right about the time of my first track event. I don’t think my wife knew what we were getting into when she signed me up for my first Chin event. There has been a lot of really great information and some hilarious bantering as well. I also really appreciate all the practical advice...like sierralima putting tape across her windshield for keeping your vision up.
I have really invested and progressed since beginning DE and now have progressed into Red group with Chin at Barber, Rd Atlanta, Sebring, and NCM. I also have done 3 masters plus level PSDS driving schools. I think the thing that really clicked for me at the second PSDS was learning to trail brake and as Cass Whitehead told me “trust Goodyear” or in our case Pirelli.
I know Dave has emphasized in this thread the importance of learning to properly trail brake. One of the “exercises” they set up for us was a trail brake oversteer exercise. In a large parking area of Barber, they set up a curve with cones. Then in one of the Caymans with all the nannies turned off and on wasted tires we would speed toward the corner, hit the brakes and abruptly turn in to induce a spin and then try to control the spin with brake pedal only and counter steering. The goal was to drift around the curve as far as possible using brake modulation. The more brake, the less drift. Not enough and car spins. That exercise has helped immeasurably with not only car control, but also learning to gradually ease off the brake. I think that has been a turning point for me.
Another turning point was sitting down with Cass and comparing his data lap to mine. As Peter has emphasized all through this thread the deltas between what you think you are doing and what the data shows can be huge.
I am now interested in possibly working my way into actual racing. I am exploring options and trying to compare that to my schedule and budget. You guys have definitely convinced me that there’s benefit to personal coaching and that is probably going to be my next investment as I try to continue improving and growing.
Thanks everyone for contributing!
Awesome post! You GET it!
Racing is another step in the intellectual exercise of high performance driving. You’re going to love it. Good luck!
This is correct. Going downhill, especially with a direction change during or immediately after, you WANT to DO this... No matter what the curve/gearing/etc.
Thank you to all the contributors on this site, I've been lurking for quite some time and found myself coming back to this thread looking for answers.
ProCoach,
I'm going to be driving RA again this October (video is my first time at RA) and it seemed it would be more ideal to short upshift right after the bridge. I tried either upshifting or leaving it in third, but it seemed as upshifting earlier helped keep the car more in the powerband since I'm already close to redline. What are your thoughts?
Thank you to all the contributors on this site, I've been lurking for quite some time and found myself coming back to this thread looking for answers.
ProCoach,
I'm going to be driving RA again this October (video is my first time at RA) and it seemed it would be more ideal to short upshift right after the bridge. I tried either upshifting or leaving it in third, but it seemed as upshifting earlier helped keep the car more in the powerband since I'm already close to redline. What are your thoughts?
Your thinking is correct. Always grab more gear in that area.
__________________ -Peter Krause www.peterkrause.net www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
Specializing in Professional, Private Driver Performance Evaluation and Optimization
Consultation Available Remotely and at VIRginia International Raceway
Your thinking is correct. Always grab more gear in that area.
Thanks Procoach! That video was after a year hiatus of not driving. Any other feedback that I can work on? I definitely need to work on braking for sure. Knowing it was a new track for me, I wasn't planning on trying to go off track without scouting how the track was. The biggest thing for me were the elevation changes and how steep turn 11 after 10 a/b was.
07-11-2018, 12:42 PM
