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Oh awesome. Rennlist comes through again. I almost don’t know where to begin…. Thanks!
That Lally event must have been incredible. I am so sorry that was “before my time.” I hadn’t seen your vid – thanks for posting. But watching the vid of him driving Tim’s GT3RS is just plain…exciting. ;-)
I would love to see your AiM data from Lally. My M3 has AiM and I’m much more comfortable looking at data there vs Traqmate. I like his line coming into 10 and 13. I think someone (ahem) was trying to explain this line to me…but seeing it helps. I’ll send you my gmail.
We’ve already ordered something to alter the pedals. I wear a men’s 5.5, and I was having trouble reaching the brake and gas. My spin was after my foot got hooked under the brake pedal.
I’ve never been a passenger in a Miata – I need to find one with a right seat and get a ride. I’d driven it around the neighborhood. When I first took off down hot pits I floored it and immediately thought something was wrong with the car. When I realized that was all it had I was probably yelling “Nooooo!” out loud.
We need to order a back brace to put in the right seat in my car.
I was trying to explain to someone this morning the main difference I notice between the M3 and Miata. When you come around a turn the Miata feels more balanced… or easier to balance. I’m not sure if it is more the weight or the suspension on the M3, or some percentage of both, but the back end on the M3 wants to push more. Of course, we are still trying to get the suspension dialed in on the M3. After all the damage to the sway bar we put the OEM one back on. It was supposed to be until TWS closed in June…now it is indefinite. Which is more than fine by me….
And thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I was very nervous I was going to be one of those people who can drive a higher horsepower car, but totally suck at Miata driving and end up going off left and right. I would tell people I bought a new car and when they asked what it was and I said Miata they would just…laugh in a knowing way. I don’t ever remember working so hard to focus and try to pick up every bit of info the car was giving me…and try to do the right thing with it.
So #1 goal is to develop the feel for the settle and work up speed gradually. It is easy to feel the settle in turn 1-2…now for the other 13…. And keep working on the shifting....
I would love to see your AiM data from Lally. My M3 has AiM and I’m much more comfortable looking at data there vs Traqmate. I like his line coming into 10 and 13. I think someone (ahem) was trying to explain this line to me…but seeing it helps. I’ll send you my gmail.
Data sent.
Originally Posted by sierralima
I was trying to explain to someone this morning the main difference I notice between the M3 and Miata. When you come around a turn the Miata feels more balanced… or easier to balance. I’m not sure if it is more the weight or the suspension on the M3, or some percentage of both, but the back end on the M3 wants to push more. Of course, we are still trying to get the suspension dialed in on the M3. After all the damage to the sway bar we put the OEM one back on. It was supposed to be until TWS closed in June…now it is indefinite. Which is more than fine by me….
Your M3 felt a bit pushy to me when I drove it, but then again I was purposely not driving it all that well, just aggressive and rough for instructor training . The effect here is very subtle - that car is very sweet. It definitely felt heavier than either of my E36 M3s. Both of my M3s are very neutral, but the setup in Dave's car is just sublime.
Originally Posted by sierralima
And thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I was very nervous I was going to be one of those people who can drive a higher horsepower car, but totally suck at Miata driving and end up going off left and right. I would tell people I bought a new car and when they asked what it was and I said Miata they would just…laugh in a knowing way. I don’t ever remember working so hard to focus and try to pick up every bit of info the car was giving me…and try to do the right thing with it.
That white M3 has always looked very poised and balanced on the track, unlike a GT3 regular whose life depends on PSM . I would argue it's harder to drive a high horsepower car correctly than a Miata.
WRT offs, I've heard Miata guys tend to have more offs and spins because they have to drive the car right up to the limit to get the performance. I would still be careful, but the car's full roll cage and low cost means you can afford to take more chances.
Originally Posted by sierralima
And of course:
Was thinking of that exact pic when I wrote my response, but felt it was a bit much, but I'm glad you posted it!
Yes, I would agree it is harder to drive a high horsepower car correctly, but the difference is you can get away with so many (repeated) mistakes and just horsepower away from them. The Miata would penalize me for mistakes with people up my butt (which was painful), whereas the M3 in the DE environment – just give it more throttle and we are good again…generally speaking.
I guess the difference is it was easy for me to get more complacent driving the M3. Esp if I was doing a DE and I was out by myself and no one was gunning for me…. Plus as you mentioned – the M3 is my daily driver and repairs are more costly. I don’t want to go crazy with it, but I’m more comfortable trying to explore the limit of the Miata vs a “better safe than sorry” approach in the M3. Having a roll cage is a good feeling, and not rubbing the skin off the side of your knee from bracing up against the door because you don’t want to take your heated seats out and put in race seats is awesome.
But I found trying to drive at the limit 100% of the time was mentally more fatiguing than my driving the M3…but maybe also because I was unfamiliar with where the limit is in the Miata.
Yes, I would agree it is harder to drive a high horsepower car correctly, but the difference is you can get away with so many (repeated) mistakes and just horsepower away from them.
You wouldn't be able to get away with that if another same model M3 were lurking around and that driver wasn't making the mistakes.
Yes, I would agree it is harder to drive a high horsepower car correctly, but the difference is you can get away with so many (repeated) mistakes and just horsepower away from them. The Miata would penalize me for mistakes with people up my butt (which was painful), whereas the M3 in the DE environment – just give it more throttle and we are good again…generally speaking.
This is a common misconception that is simply false.
High horsepower cars are only able to mask mistakes using horsepower against lower horsepower cars and similar horsepower cars that are just as poorly driven.
Yes, that is definitely true. I've found what motivates me the most (and is quite educational) is either following or being chased by a similar car. Unfortunately, at quite a few DE events I don't get the opportunity...which is part of what fueled my desire to do something different.
And I've learned trying to follow a similar M3 that is on Hoosiers when you are on NT01s is a good way to find the limits of the tire. ;-)
The spec Miata should help level that playing field.
For me, it doesn't have to be a similar car, just another car running about the same lap times I am. Instant feedback on what works and what doesn't. With good cooperative passing, both can come out of the experience faster.
Plus, it is just plain fun playing chase the rabbit .
What I think would be fun is some of the endurance racing. I'm going to BMWCCA club race school next month, and NASA in Sept. My lofty goal is ChumpCar or similar.
What I really think would be fun is off-road rally racing. I like the idea of having someone to argue with in the car with me, like in the Samir, you are breaking the car! video.
Unfortunately, my pit crew is not on board with that one.
This is a common misconception that is simply false.
High horsepower cars are only able to mask mistakes using horsepower against lower horsepower cars and similar horsepower cars that are just as poorly driven.
All cars are momentum cars too!
Agreed.
__________________ -Peter Krause www.peterkrause.net www.gofasternow.com
"Combining the Art and Science of Driving Fast!"
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When I drive the M3 on the track I will make a mistake. That mistake may cost me (random numbers here) 0.1- 0.4 seconds/lap. Unless I have someone of a similar driving skill either right in front of me or behind me the mistake has little consequence...I'm in a DE...and my tendency is to ignore it and say I'll do better next lap.
In the Miata I would make a mistake and more times than not it affected my ability to power out of the corner. I have no exact data, but I would guess it would affect my lap times more to the tune of 0.5-4 seconds/lap. Not to mention because I'm going slower other cars would catch up to me in a dramatic fashion. The outcome for me was I was much more concerned, aware and motivated to avoid these mistakes.
The argument could be made that I should have been as bothered by my mistakes in the M3 as much as in the Miata....
PS I liked the section in Speed Secrets this morning about one driving style does not fit all cars, etc.
The argument could be made that I should have been as bothered by my mistakes in the M3 as much as in the Miata....
Yep, if your focus is on driving technique/skills rather than raw lap time. Mistakes certainly are more costly in the Miata, both in terms of raw lap time and getting passed at a DE. Getting held up at a DE in a Miata is also more challenging. Anything that steals you momentum is painful because it takes so much time for the gerbils to restore the lost VRs (kinetic energy - inside joke there).
Dealing with a similar lap time Miata is a challenging passing situation if the goal is for both drivers to stay on the boil. Here open passing really shines. I can use my superior horsepower in the straights to get by the Miata and I can let the Miata back by in the twisties where the Miata has a weight advantage. Done well, both cars are hauling the mail and the performance differences are right there in your face.
The argument could be made that I should have been as bothered by my mistakes in the M3 as much as in the Miata....
Agreed. And IMO the more time you spend in the Miata, the more aware you will be of these small mistakes that have a large impact in more powerful cars as well.
Agreed. And IMO the more time you spend in the Miata, the more aware you will be of these small mistakes that have a large impact in more powerful cars as well.
Is the assumption that the same small mistake impacts a Miata more than a GT3 against like cars true?
It seems like it would be, as the GT3 can recover the momentum faster, however the other GT3s have the same power and while you are "recovering" they are leaving you in the dust - so perhaps not.
I make a bunch of small mistakes/errors in the last few laps of the Long Beach race this year and lose time just like you would in a Spec Miata race. The only difference is things happen a little faster.
And of course, one big mistake on the 2nd to last lap. (In my own defense I started 17th and was trying to get James for 7th place after we only had like 5 green flag laps. I was stuck behind a slower car (but faster on the straights) for the last 20 minutes of the 2nd race at St. Petersburg and told my team before this race that there was no way in hell I was going to get stuck behind anyone. I was either going off or getting by. )
07-25-2015, 05:21 PM
I don’t ever remember working so hard to focus and try to pick up every bit of info the car was giving me…and try to do the right thing with it.
. I would argue it's harder to drive a high horsepower car correctly than a Miata.
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