BostonDMD

Very well stated......agree 100%.......

Veloce Raptor

So what you're saying is you didn't get your crank yanked.









Professional Racing and Driving Coach

PedroNole

I think on any given weekend any run group (or sanctioning body for that matter) is susceptible to carnage. Watkins Glen last year was a crash fest in the non-GTC groups. Sebring (biggest showing of Cups this year) had very little carnage in the GTC groups that I recall.

With today's smaller fields, thus less run groups, thus bigger speed (forget about skill for a minute) differential, thus more opportunities for split second decisions by both the slower and faster car, thus a higher frequency of incidents.

The most dangerous thing I think I've been involved with to date in PCA was the restart in the combined run group enduro at VIR this year. Caution comes out with 4 laps to go. The race actually should have ended (time wise) under yellow but the stewards opted for one last green flag lap after the field had bunched up. Turn 1-5 at VIR with 30 cars from stock 994's to 997 RSR's. Add in several rookie drivers and guys in faster cars trying to weave through traffic for position and it was a meley... It was the most susceptible to multiple incidents situation that I have been in but it was also the most fun... Happy to say though that no incident occured on the last lap that I was aware of. Was that lucky? Probably so. Should the stewards have opted for the final green lap, probably not. If there had been some incidents, I don't know that you could have laid all the blame at the feet of the faster cars...

RSRRacer

Who wants to race with people that aren't agressive? Hey, let's go watch paint dry! Boneheaded moves are prevalent in ALL motorracing from Lemons to Le Mans.

Sterling Doc

I haven't run with the PCA yet, but will at T.R.A.C., so I have no comments yet on how things are out there.

I have run under the 13/13 system before, though, and am not a fan.

I like an educational approach to dealing with contact, and have found that just finding who's to "blame" is too simplistic. There is always something from every party to learn from every incident, and this is lost when one driver gets the blame, and the other feels vindicated.

I have been on both the majority blame and majority victim ends of things over the years, but the guys at NASA Midwest - Bryan Cohn & Dave Royce, have always sat me down and given me things to think about, no matter how much in the "right" I was. In the end everyone improves their racecraft. If you do a bone head move, expect to be made a public example of, but on a learning basis, not a punitive one (unless you keep at it).

Early on in my "career", I had contact caused (or at least made worse), by not "skinning" a guy I was passing. The video is now part of the NASA comp school curriculum in some regions to teach that point. I learned my lesson, both from a racecraft perspective, and the chastisement of the publicity. Conversely, I was "hip checked" by a passing car that lost it underneath me recently. Clearly not my fault, but Dave Royce (NASA MW Director), had me think some more about how I deal with faster traffic - where best to let them by, and where it's better not to open the door. These are things that I would not have thought about, if I were feeling smug about being victimized, and the other guy being put on probation (which he was). Though I wasn't "at fault", I may have been able to minimize the risk of that incident developing through better racecraft (and would have been slowed up less to boot, by not leaving the door open in that spot).

There's a lot more to learn from every incident, or near miss, than who's to "blame"

joseph mitro

wow, that cup car spin could have been really bad! sideways in the middle of the track around a corner ain't good

Bill L Seifert

I started racing in PCA in 1996, and quit 2006. During that 10 years I also ran SCCA, which is what I race exclusively now. I'd rather be stuck with a pack of Spec Miatas with my Civic SSC, than be in a lot of PCA races I have attended. When wrecking a $40,000 race car means nothing to you, then all the 13/13's mean nothing. So many PCA racers have enough money to burn a wet mule, so a penality that costs money is not effective. Most PCA Drivers Eds (Especially at Road Atlanta) sent more cars home all crinkled up than was done in your average SCCA club race.

Just MHO, no hard statistics

Bill Seifert

jrgordonsenior

I think another contributing factor is that many drivers don't get to race that often due to logistics. Lack of racing seat time impairs your judgement and makes the race that much more important.....

race911

And how much does it cost to race "over there?" Kind of like here where we, as middle class, can afford all manner of pretty decent equipment? Or would you have to have almost a title of royalty to even sniff at tracking a 2.0 924?

Gary R.

'97 911C4S Factory Aerokit Stock Arctic Silver/Chestnut Brown
'95 993 3.8 NOT Stock Speed Yellow/Black (aka Kim's Yellow Zonker)
'93 911RSA X2 Both Guards Red/Black (Club Racer Cadaver + Stock Replacement)
'73 911T RS Clone 3.2L GP White (PRC Spec Racer)
'03 Radical SR3 1.3L
'03 Ford F-350 King Ranch 6.0 + Progressive stacker trailer
'08 smart Cab

Where does your Middle Class exist, I need a job!

mooty

LMAO. you race more than pro's.

race911

OK, tell me where else a guy can run a couple of businesses marginally successfully over the years, and race more than in a POS spec class? Oh, and where a 911 is even available when you're a teenager, you can tinker with it, upgrade it with a plethora of old parts for the taking, and turn that experience into owning your own Porsche/BMW specialty shop when you get out of college? Bottom line is that we have opportunity here, and at a fraction of the price, of anywhere else in the world. If that means that someone a bit underqualified can buy his way in with a car a bit above his level, doesn't bother me in the least. If not, then I'd say exclude all of you who haven't made the same lifelong commitment to the marque. Of course, I won't be racing either since I'd be sharing the overhead of a race weekend with about eight others with similar experience..............

But to answer the class envy question, I'm basically unemployed going on one year now. (I receive "unemployment" in the form of monthly payments on a structured business buyout, and have another business I own absentee that's really only open for the sake of employing 6-8 people in lower middle class jobs.) Ultimately, living below our means has allowed me to enjoy the above, which if you add it up comes to about one Cup car. I've also probably paid out less than $2K over the years for mechanical work on any car I've owned. I'm actively pursuing purchasing another business, but can find no rationale for doing so in California. Alas, we're stuck here with my wife's bank VP gig. So all in all, yeah, I'm the guy who worked his way into that "top 1%", fallen to being a "drain on society", and would like to get back up there, all while employing 5-10-15 people.

So whenever anyone else wants to break that ultimate taboo and discuss income, I'm in.

Bob Rouleau

Hmm this thread has taken a bit of a turn. How about comments on the start of the Club race last weekend at Mosport. Check out the first and second place cars at the start..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w_kxAnOSyE

f1rocks

I like my POS spec class

2BWise

I don't totally agree with the comment about Atlantics and SRs. Particularly, there seems to be much more courtesy in the open wheel and mixed open wheel/sports racer run groups because the consequences are much greater. In any fender class you can bump and rub and go for a low percentage move because you've got a big cocoon around you. The results of leaning on someone are fairly unspectacular. Whereas, in an open wheeler bumping and even touching can send a guy to the hospital. I've watched lots of open wheel races and been competing in them for two years now and the amount of contact is very low to non existent.