View Poll Results: Who will win?
Nico Hulkenberg
0
0%
Vitaly Petrov
0
0%
Adrian Sutil
0
0%
Viantonio Liuzzi
0
0%
Sebastien Buemi
0
0%
Jamie Alguersuari
0
0%
Jarno Trulli
0
0%
Heikki Kovalainen
0
0%
Karun Chandhok
0
0%
Bruno Senna
0
0%
Pedro de la Rosa
0
0%
Kamui Kobayashi
0
0%
Timo Glock
0
0%
Lucas di Grassi
0
0%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll
2010 Malaysian Grand Prix
04-05-2010, 12:17 PM
#106
Formula One Spin Doctor
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Alonso had no clutch from the start! It's amazing that not only it lasted as long as it did but that he was going as fast as he was. Not to mention the pitstop. How the hell do you do that without a clutch.
As far as him not losing time; that's just ludicris. A split second hesitation from the engine coming off of the corner is amplified at the end of the of the following straight. Next time you're on the track, throw it into neutral at the apex, then put it in the correct gear and see your laptimes. And if you don't think that time is lost while braking and downshifting, then I guess we can discuss that seperately.
As for him pushing, don't forget his race engineer telling him to catch/pass Button. Obviously the Ferrari brain trust felt that the equipment would hold up to the punishment, they were wrong by 1.5 laps. He was following his race engineer's orders. At the end of the day, this only cost him two points.
As far as him not losing time; that's just ludicris. A split second hesitation from the engine coming off of the corner is amplified at the end of the of the following straight. Next time you're on the track, throw it into neutral at the apex, then put it in the correct gear and see your laptimes. And if you don't think that time is lost while braking and downshifting, then I guess we can discuss that seperately.
As for him pushing, don't forget his race engineer telling him to catch/pass Button. Obviously the Ferrari brain trust felt that the equipment would hold up to the punishment, they were wrong by 1.5 laps. He was following his race engineer's orders. At the end of the day, this only cost him two points.
Well, that's basically impossible to tell but since he's having hard time beating Chandhok... Liuzzi I don't rate much but Koby seems to impress me almost every time he drives, fast and has guts.
Besides, I didn't compare him to any of these, I said he ain't Ayrton.
Or are you saying Bruno is not slower than Ayrton was when he started in F1 with a piece of **** car?
(I know you aren't...)
Besides, I didn't compare him to any of these, I said he ain't Ayrton.
Or are you saying Bruno is not slower than Ayrton was when he started in F1 with a piece of **** car?
(I know you aren't...)
04-05-2010, 01:04 PM
#107
Anjin San
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His whining about some imagined slight, his not taking Lewis Hamilton's successs as something to spur him on shows his immaturity. Instead he crys to the press like a middle school girl on her period.
The next thing will be that he will complain that Massa got an extra meatball at the team meal.
Unfortunately, driving talent is no indicator for class.
04-05-2010, 01:25 PM
#108
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I thought we were watching F1 championship (driving), not to see who has the most class. If that was the case, Coulthard would have been a multiple "class" champion.
I think you are watching the wrong program.
Regards.
I think you are watching the wrong program.
Regards.
04-05-2010, 01:27 PM
#109
Formula One Spin Doctor
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No sane person will deny that Freddy is not very talented. What he did yesterday was expected from a World Champion. And that talent makes me wonder why he did not do better at McLearn.
His whining about some imagined slight, his not taking Lewis Hamilton's successs as something to spur him on shows his immaturity. Instead he crys to the press like a middle school girl on her period.
The next thing will be that he will complain that Massa got an extra meatball at the team meal.
Unfortunately, driving talent is no indicator for class.
His whining about some imagined slight, his not taking Lewis Hamilton's successs as something to spur him on shows his immaturity. Instead he crys to the press like a middle school girl on her period.
The next thing will be that he will complain that Massa got an extra meatball at the team meal.
Unfortunately, driving talent is no indicator for class.
This is so off , it 's not worth mentioning .....
+10
Last edited by A.Wayne; 04-05-2010 at 03:12 PM.
04-05-2010, 01:31 PM
#110
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That is totally false. Alsono's gear problem was on downshifting and braking. It was perfect on accel. So he could get out of the corners just fine. However his braking was compromised. That is what Button repassed him when Alonso tried the outside. The box was going into neutral on the downshifts so he was losing engine braking. Not in traffic he could manage that, but the car was not strong enough under brakes to pull off a pass. Personally I think Alonso pushed too hard trying to pass Button knowing he had a problem with the box. That pushing caused the motor to pop.
Not ready so say Alonso was "stupid" in pushing that had, but I have a feeling that had he settled in and not tried so hard to pass the motor might have made the distance. So points lost despite the strong effort to drive around the issue.
Not ready so say Alonso was "stupid" in pushing that had, but I have a feeling that had he settled in and not tried so hard to pass the motor might have made the distance. So points lost despite the strong effort to drive around the issue.
Alonso lost a valuable 1-2 seconds per down shift sequence preventing him from keeping the small gap he had on Button into the breaking zone. The overhead shots on the 180 degree turn between the two long straights illustrated this perfectly. Alonso would lose ground each time. When he got back on the power, Button had pulled him off the corners and down the straight. The entire corning/braking/power on needs to be taken into account.
Remember, Alonso was the very last car to pit yesterday, had the freshest tires and was on the soft compound with less fuel weight when he got his tires vs. Button on the hard compound. Without question he should have passed Button if all was well with his gearbox and showed the speed to make the attempt. I don't blame Ferrari for telling him to go for it, because if he could get by, he would have pulled away as Massa did. You can say it was just 1 point, but 2 of the last 3 championships have been won and lost over 1 point.
I don't know if anyone else has brought this up, but two things could have contributed to the blow up yesterday.
1. Ferrari has their drivers on lower than maximum revs for longevity. Just before Alonso blew up, he was literally under Button's wing and could have been using full revs.
2. Alonso followed Button down the entire length of the front straight, as mentioned above, literally under his rear wing. I thought he would pop out and try to go inside on Button, but he didn't. Perhaps that long straight at max revs, no clean air and ingesting the heat off Button's exhaust contributed to the ultimate failure on the next corner.
04-05-2010, 01:41 PM
#111
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based on the hearing the car in the braking zones and accels it became clear to me his problem was on downchanges.
There was a problem in the gearbox tha cause it to foul up when downshifting. I could not tell if it happen at certain gear interval (ie from 3rd to 2nd) or any time he was downshifting. What was clear was that at times the box seemed to go into neutral when going down through the gears. On conrner exit accell he seemed to do just fine and box never missed a beat. So probably something in the controller.
So I do give him credit for runing damage car strong. However when he stayed with Button on the way in to a coner he had normal accel on the way out of the corner. His weak spot was the way in. I am sure was fooling around with brake bias doing all he could to compenstate for poor braking and in clean running you can take different lines and try to carry speed and general have a better shot of driving around a probelm. However when racing comes down to out braking a guy from 180 mph missing a gear on the way down hurts really bad.
Now as for driving it too hard looking back it seems obvious to me that he was pushing it hard and maybe had he taken it easier in the brake zones and not challenged he could have held position to get more points than he did. Seems to me like he was trying too hard to for 1 more point only to have it cost him the points he had.
Now if the Ferrari team was pushing him then clear he was on not doing it on his own. However it still does not change the fact that maybe it was the wrong plan. It should have been very clear that barring major error Alonso was not going to pass Button. Alonso's car was too weak under braking. Sorry to say but it was just that way.
Like I said earlier I am not ready to call it a "stupid" idea as you always need to race. Certainly had he been able to pass and have the car last it would have been a great idea. However he failed at both the pass and the finish. So at some point you do need to ask was it worth it. Could the car have made it a few laps more had Alonso just held position rather than attacking?
There was a problem in the gearbox tha cause it to foul up when downshifting. I could not tell if it happen at certain gear interval (ie from 3rd to 2nd) or any time he was downshifting. What was clear was that at times the box seemed to go into neutral when going down through the gears. On conrner exit accell he seemed to do just fine and box never missed a beat. So probably something in the controller.
So I do give him credit for runing damage car strong. However when he stayed with Button on the way in to a coner he had normal accel on the way out of the corner. His weak spot was the way in. I am sure was fooling around with brake bias doing all he could to compenstate for poor braking and in clean running you can take different lines and try to carry speed and general have a better shot of driving around a probelm. However when racing comes down to out braking a guy from 180 mph missing a gear on the way down hurts really bad.
Now as for driving it too hard looking back it seems obvious to me that he was pushing it hard and maybe had he taken it easier in the brake zones and not challenged he could have held position to get more points than he did. Seems to me like he was trying too hard to for 1 more point only to have it cost him the points he had.
Now if the Ferrari team was pushing him then clear he was on not doing it on his own. However it still does not change the fact that maybe it was the wrong plan. It should have been very clear that barring major error Alonso was not going to pass Button. Alonso's car was too weak under braking. Sorry to say but it was just that way.
Like I said earlier I am not ready to call it a "stupid" idea as you always need to race. Certainly had he been able to pass and have the car last it would have been a great idea. However he failed at both the pass and the finish. So at some point you do need to ask was it worth it. Could the car have made it a few laps more had Alonso just held position rather than attacking?
You speak of entry and exit as if they are two totally separate events when they are not. This is a high speed track we are talking about and speed lost on entry costs you on exit. Probably even more so in the slower corners.
Don't forget these are VERY high revving low torque NA cars. If you don't have your revs up exiting the corners, it kills your exit speed. Alonso was clearly several thousand RPMS off when exiting the corners as the engine was basically bogging mid corner. There is no way your corner exit could be good with that in an F1 car. He was just so much faster than Button he could keep up but not pass under braking which is really the only place we see passing in F1. His only other option was to draft him on the straight, but the McLaren is too fast, and his revs were far too slow coming off the corner.
It was one heck of an amazing drive to deal with that corner after corner for the major part of 56 laps.
04-05-2010, 02:04 PM
#112
The Rebel
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based on the hearing the car in the braking zones and accels it became clear to me his problem was on downchanges.
There was a problem in the gearbox tha cause it to foul up when downshifting. I could not tell if it happen at certain gear interval (ie from 3rd to 2nd) or any time he was downshifting. What was clear was that at times the box seemed to go into neutral when going down through the gears. On conrner exit accell he seemed to do just fine and box never missed a beat. So probably something in the controller.
So I do give him credit for runing damage car strong. However when he stayed with Button on the way in to a coner he had normal accel on the way out of the corner. His weak spot was the way in. I am sure was fooling around with brake bias doing all he could to compenstate for poor braking and in clean running you can take different lines and try to carry speed and general have a better shot of driving around a probelm. However when racing comes down to out braking a guy from 180 mph missing a gear on the way down hurts really bad.
Now as for driving it too hard looking back it seems obvious to me that he was pushing it hard and maybe had he taken it easier in the brake zones and not challenged he could have held position to get more points than he did. Seems to me like he was trying too hard to for 1 more point only to have it cost him the points he had.
Now if the Ferrari team was pushing him then clear he was on not doing it on his own. However it still does not change the fact that maybe it was the wrong plan. It should have been very clear that barring major error Alonso was not going to pass Button. Alonso's car was too weak under braking. Sorry to say but it was just that way.
Like I said earlier I am not ready to call it a "stupid" idea as you always need to race. Certainly had he been able to pass and have the car last it would have been a great idea. However he failed at both the pass and the finish. So at some point you do need to ask was it worth it. Could the car have made it a few laps more had Alonso just held position rather than attacking?
There was a problem in the gearbox tha cause it to foul up when downshifting. I could not tell if it happen at certain gear interval (ie from 3rd to 2nd) or any time he was downshifting. What was clear was that at times the box seemed to go into neutral when going down through the gears. On conrner exit accell he seemed to do just fine and box never missed a beat. So probably something in the controller.
So I do give him credit for runing damage car strong. However when he stayed with Button on the way in to a coner he had normal accel on the way out of the corner. His weak spot was the way in. I am sure was fooling around with brake bias doing all he could to compenstate for poor braking and in clean running you can take different lines and try to carry speed and general have a better shot of driving around a probelm. However when racing comes down to out braking a guy from 180 mph missing a gear on the way down hurts really bad.
Now as for driving it too hard looking back it seems obvious to me that he was pushing it hard and maybe had he taken it easier in the brake zones and not challenged he could have held position to get more points than he did. Seems to me like he was trying too hard to for 1 more point only to have it cost him the points he had.
Now if the Ferrari team was pushing him then clear he was on not doing it on his own. However it still does not change the fact that maybe it was the wrong plan. It should have been very clear that barring major error Alonso was not going to pass Button. Alonso's car was too weak under braking. Sorry to say but it was just that way.
Like I said earlier I am not ready to call it a "stupid" idea as you always need to race. Certainly had he been able to pass and have the car last it would have been a great idea. However he failed at both the pass and the finish. So at some point you do need to ask was it worth it. Could the car have made it a few laps more had Alonso just held position rather than attacking?
04-05-2010, 03:17 PM
#113
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I believe Massa would beg to differ, as I seem to recall engine failures in the past 2 years post Suzuka (Hungary perhaps?), not to mention KERS failures early in the season as well (cars catching fire, etc)
04-05-2010, 03:21 PM
#114
Formula One Spin Doctor
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the one Amigo Pete made a bet on to win the WDC ..
04-05-2010, 04:35 PM
#115
Race Director
1) Pushing harder with wounded car. Harder than he the laps before making it more apprent he was struggling.
2) The gearbox failure got worse.
Look what was occuring was troubling and did slow him down. Clearly he did great job of masking the problem most of the race. He did so by managing his entry speed and quickly driving through the problem. A good driver top level of motorsports should be able to drive around a minor issue like this for a race distance assuming the problem does not get worse. The problem was costing him time certainly , but he did well mask it. As for corner exit as soon as he got the car back on power he accelerated just fine. I would be surpised to see if he did not have his mid corner speed INCREASE due to this problem. By slightly increase the mid corner speed he could lessen the impact getting to gear before appying power and lessen the impact of reduced braking. Now this would have to beat the tires more and probably be harder on the brakes and possibly the motor too.
It is not the best way around the track if the car were working right, but it was what he had to do to minimize his time loss. The biggest problem he had however was he did not have the abllty to brake deep into a corner. When he tired to match the braking of Button the car just did not respond.
Look Alonso's car was wounded and far from ideal. He did great job of pushing it hard, but it became clear to me he was not going to pass Button when I heard how challenging the downshifts were. He had the power to run with Button and the speed down the straight too. He was just laking in the braking zones due to missing a gear. The one thing I never saw was if the problem was in all corners or just the slow corners. I only remember in car from the slow corners where he had to go down 5-6 gears. Those are turn 1-2 complex and the final two (hairpin) and right hander before that long straight. I would not be surprised to learn the problem was limited to the lower gears and only happend in 3 braking zones on the track. Thus again limiting how bad it hurt overall lap times. Still those are the overtaking spots so it left him powerless to properly challenge Button.
04-05-2010, 05:08 PM
#116
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Anyone wondering how Renault has developed such a good car without the services of the greatest car development driver in F1 history?
I'm sure it's nothing.
End
04-05-2010, 05:16 PM
#117
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Larry Herman
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Larry Herman
2016 Ford Transit Connect Titanium LWB
2018 Tesla Model 3 - Electricity can be fun!
Retired Club Racer & National PCA Instructor
Past Flames:
1994 RS America Club Racer
2004 GT3 Track Car
1984 911 Carrera Club Racer
1974 914/4 2.0 Track Car
CLICK HERE to see some of my ancient racing videos.
04-05-2010, 05:26 PM
#118
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I'm fairly certain that Petrov's manager....Ms Oksana...can "motivate" both people and cars.
Now THAT is a woman who is strong like bull.
Now THAT is a woman who is strong like bull.
04-05-2010, 05:34 PM
#119
Formula One Spin Doctor
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last year Button made Brawn Mercedes a winner , now they are a has been
04-05-2010, 05:41 PM
#120
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