NaroEscape

Actually, with Carolinas it's take 1 student, about 50% break. 2 Students it's free.

And we have no problem with getting instructors. Right now, we have too many instructors, no enough students for CMP the first weekend of Oct.

The reason we did this was simple. Say you and your buddy were instructing, and you got two students, he got one (it's a numbers game, that's what happens). His student is great, and gets signed off immediately, while your two students are a lot of work and take 100% of your time all weekend. You do all the work, but neither of you pay. Is that fair? So if you work hard for the region, and take two students, you're free.

What happens if we give it totally free for all instructors? We end up having to charge even more for students to cover the costs. As I said, we usually don't have a problem finding instructors, right now, it's the students that are in short supply....and raising their price will not help

Phokaioglaukos

Interesting poll results and comments. Thanks for starting it.

I think instructors should have to pay something. That way when they sign up to attend there is a greater probability that they will attend, and that makes the whole program run more smoothly, for the organizers, the instructors and the students.

It is also important that instrctors feel appreciated, and that is a matter for the organizers and the students to attend to, with the leadership from the top.

As a second year instructor I feel obliged to give back to clubs that helped me so much by instructing whenever I can. Attending track days in the UK and Germany where there does not seem to be the same instructor structure makes me appreciate the PCA and BMW CCA program all the more.

RickBetterley

I like the 50% off for instructors and free garage space (or at least 1st dibs) when available.
I would not want to have more than 1 student if I was driving as well.
Given the expense of DE, I doubt that registration cost makes a lot of difference when thinking about attending. The gesture of a discount, though, is much appreciated.

BrianKeithSmith

+1

I really can't handle 2 students and have a good time at the track.
Also - NO CONVERTIBLES for me!

I'm cool with paying a reduced rate, taking one student, after all, the events need money AND instructors.

Veloce Raptor

I disagree with your first premise, and contend it contradicts your second premise.






Professional Racing and Driving Coach

Willard Bridgham 3

If you're gonna play, you gotta pay.....track time costs money whether or not you have students.

If they paid me to show up (they won't), I wouldn't want more than one student.

Veloce Raptor

Disagree. Instructors' volunteer time and effort has value.






Professional Racing and Driving Coach

RonCT

Years ago I was asked by BMWCCA to instruct and I thanked them and passed. Reason being is that while the events were "free" to instructors, you ended up with 3 students per day. I saw buddies of mine literally running around all day from car to car and in the end missing much of their own track time. The responsibility of 3 students was just too much.

I also know the registrar of the local BMWCCA and he had a heck of a time insuring that instructors showed up. It was too easy to cancel, often late due to weather, because the instructor really had no skin in the game (no loss of $ for canceling). While the registrar wanted to be punitive to those that canceled and left the group and some students holding the bag, when you desperately need instrutors, you often have to look the other way.

Our PCA chapter had a much reduced rate for instructors and this year lowered the fee even further in recognition of economic realities. I think it's a good balance - reasonable fee, reasonable responsibilities. An instructor can still have enough time during the day to hydrate, eat, socialize, work on skills, etc.

I don't think there's any magic poll number that's going to help you. Determining the right fee level is all about balance based on how many instructors are in your pool, how many students are signing up (we still are fortunate to have full events), etc.

trumperZ06

I agree.

Our expenses are the same as the students, including Hotel, food, car expense, the only exception being entry fees. Good instructors spend a lot of time working with their students, both on and off the track !!!

Like someone posted earlier...

Why should we be asked to pay...

to work for a club !!!

Here in the Southeast... there seems to be a shortage of instructors and we constantly get e-mails from clubs asking us to attend & instruct.

In the SE... chief instructors & event organizers all talk with one another so...

those instructors who are in it only for free track time or are bad apples are soon removed.

And YES... there are many clubs down here where instructors don't pay a fee.

These clubs seem to get the best instructors, which is really a small group.

Lou D

Come and instruct for Hudson Valley Region PCA on Sept 30- Oct 1 at Watkins Glen. Instructors will only have to instruct one student for four sessions each day. The rest of the day (six hours) is open track for advanced drivers and instructors. The fee for instructors is $150 for the two day event.

I don't believe in overloading instructors with multiple students. The event has to be enjoyable for the instructors, because I want them to return for future events.

For the normal DE formatted events, I try to compose the schedule in such a way that there is as little overlap as possible between the instructor and student run groups so that the student's runs are completed by the early afternoon. For the remainder of the day, the instructors can drive in their run groups without having to worry about finishing their run and having to jump back into the student's car.

bella1

That is something our DE Group with FSR just discussed last night. We have the same issue, and I just opened a new post asking for Instructors! We see it two ways.

ONE: since this is PCA, an argument can be made that a reduced fee for Instructors makes sense as the fee does go to support the region hosting the event. PCA is a non profit operation and I know our region has charitable reasons for raising revenue from DE events.

TWO: because of the economy and shortage of instructors, perhaps we need to consider no charge for Instructors as a way to ensure that we can maintain the one to one ratio.

For our Fall DE Event, we charge Students and Drivers $350 for three days. Instructors pay $100 for three days. http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.c...13C15F79ABDA59

I think this is reasonable but our region is looking at this like other regions. After all, we want to encourage DE participation and have fun while breaking even or raising additional funds for worthy causes.

George3

Of course not. This poll is designed to CREATE AWARENESS of the problems at hand !!

Kudos to you and Hudson Valley Region !!
That is the right approach.

BobbyC

Instructors should not have to pay! They are volunteering their time AND putting themselves at risk each time they get in a student's car!!!

Heck, when I was a student, I would have happily paid all those brave instructors who rode with me! And two words for all those guys/gals: THANK YOU! Now just don't ask for a retroactive payment...

RonCT

Hey George, if you read my post thoroughly, you'd see the sentence after the one you quoted and realize my intent.

Determining the right fee level is all about balance based on how many instructors are in your pool, how many students are signing up (we still are fortunate to have full events), etc.

mhm993

I avoid groups that assign two students, and free wouldn't change that. I voted for the instructor discount, not free. Maybe a t shirt or cap at the end of the season, too.

Do the regions that comp instructors tend to charge instructed students more than solo drivers?