DarkSideDE

As so many have said, this is an interesting topic and I'm glad it is up for discussion. In reading through the 5 pages (btw - how many will this one get to?) I see some of my own opinions forming. I hope you don't mind my sharing a few with you.

I like keeping track of which instructors help out so at the next DE it can be a breeze for them. Our very first DE back in 2001 - I had 3 instructors have 3 students each. Two of them were repaid by having no students when we had a surplus of instructors; the other was given free DE two years later.

Our region once had the debate in the boardroom about charging students more for having an instructor. The "elders" agreed, it would be hell on the organizers. I watch people try to save $25 by saying they are PCA when they aren't to get the lower rate -- it is embarrassing when they are caught. Can you imagine a Greenie deciding to save the difference by telling you he has track experience; or the blue who may soon be ready to solo - but doesn't want to pay the additional amount?


I think most regions are fortunate. The students that have taken advantage of the program who have gone up the ladder, know it's been a reasonably priced ride and therefore now want to give back to the club. This is one way of doing it and helping keep the costs down for the next generation on their way up.

I just had to repeat this one. Thank you - you said it very well - and I'm sure there are others out there with this same opinion and others like me who appreciate your putting it in writing.

Maybe in a perfect world. Do you know how many regions have done DEs that they do not get in as many as they need - and will accept students/instructors right up to the day of the event? You might be surprised how some organizers juggle it so the club doesn't go into the red.

I've seen clubs with 11 instructors - and then 11 blues and greens. They make due and are fortunate to have dedicated instructors. I've seen some regions know how to get on the phone and start calling instructors -- inviting them to the track so they can have a 1:1 scenario.

One problem we've really seen that took away from the instructors pool is Club Racing. I'm glad that PCA has put passing anywhere with a point for the instructors groups - in the areas of the US where instructors are needed - this might help draw them back to help at DEs.

Special note for VR: I was once told that instructors in Texas were a dime a dozen by one particular CDI out there... It isn't like that in the SE. To get an instructor to come back -- you just have to treat them nice.

And thank you all for letting me ramble on... an on...

Veloce Raptor

I suspect that person is no longer CDI anywhere. What a foolish attitude, eh?






Professional Racing and Driving Coach

James-man

Supply and demand baby.

TREMPER

The issue in the east is we have more people that do DE events. We have a lot of good facilities but many of our events are during week days for there are not enough weekends to go around. I do not think any other part of the country runs during the week which is a norm in the northeast. When you are the only game in town it is easier to fill the event. PCA has a lot of competition in the east from other HPD venues...so in order to get instructors, the event organizers need to make it attractive..lower fees, 1:1 student ratio and Expanded Passing...BUT PCA is a volunteer based club and every needs to "pitch in" to make it work..
As far as track rental fees, some of the northeast tracks may be out of line but two days at Wakins Glen is about $22K all inclusive..flaggers , garages, ..

Pete

Veloce Raptor

Very interesting, thanks, Pete. i know they do this at Laguna and Infineon as well, for the same reasons. Agree about volunteering to make it all work for everyone.






Professional Racing and Driving Coach

race911

Do what, run weekdays at Sears and Laguna? And Thunderhill and Buttonwillow and Fontana and and and.

I can get specific numbers, but the March BMWCCA event at Sears (yes, weekend) was somewhere around $40K, all in. $230/day for flaggers. Who are paid probably $12/hr. (It was $10/hr 4-5 years ago when they wanted volunteer ambassadors for the pro weekends, but offered me $10/hr to flag on rental days. THAT was going to motivate me.............)

Oh, and Laguna limits you to 25 cars/session unless you want to pay more. Not to mention ****-esque sound enforcement so those oh-so-sensitive ears playing golf next door at Pasadera aren't permanently damaged.

Glen

They should never pay. Risk Your life, equipment, time with family/away from work and pay also, don't think so...good Instructors are invaluable, events are fortunate even to get them to do this free, just my unbiased opinion...lol

Bull

Exactly! In my area the instructors pay a reduced rate at most of the PCA events, and many of the summer events sell out for students, solo and instructor groups.

mrbill_fl

2 students is just nuts. nobody gets their money's worth... someone is going to loose track time(ususally the instructor). and the instruction is not the best it could be.

and then there's the liablity... should something bad happen. some responsiblity goes to the event organizer for creating it.

George from MD

"I instruct because I LIKE it. When I get that special student with a real aptitude I have a ball in the right seat. I still remember how my passion for the sport was fueled by my early instructors. Doesn't anyone feel good about "giving back" ? I have instructed for regions that don't charge instructors but give you two students, and I would rather pay a few dollars and have some down time, but if that is what they have to do to make their program work I am glad to help. The fees charged are such a small component of the overall expense of this game I don't see how they an effect anyone's decision about instructing. Every PCA region I instruct for goes out of their way to make me feel appreciated and I am glad to have a chance to help"

B I N G O.

Nothing like seeing the lights come on when someone is "getting" it. Last event I had a 0/0 student who didn't know an apex from a hole in the wall- he was eating up the green group by Sunday. It was very rewarding; he listened, learned and applied and I felt great when I went home.

It is, after all, a Driver Education event and, as Pete noted, a club. If you don't like instructing or contributing to your club, feel the price is too high etc. there are plenty of other venues to get track time.

Geoffrey

I think that one of the points that is missed here is that although an instuctor has increased responsibilities (students) he/she still has time of their own to drive on the track. I feel they should pay for that privilege (at a reduced rate). I think it is unfair for the students and the signed off solo participants to bare the full burden of the track rental costs.

Bull

I agree, as I said in post #58.

pmgoodwin

As a student I have no problem with instructors getting in for free.

First of all without the instructors we wouldn't be having the DEs. Not just that but the instructors are climbing in the right seat of a car with a rookie trying to find their limits.

As for solo drivers footing the bill, just because you're solo doesn't mean that the instructors aren't available for you.

It is the instructors that really make the DE experience what it is.

So for teaching/coaching us on driving, keeping us safe and making DE an enjoyable experience footing the bill for them to get some track time is well worth it.

Mikelly

I instructed for the first time two weeks ago, and I had two students on the third day. I went in knowing what I was getting into. I knew that I was going to be hustling on the last day. I knew that I was going to be working hard to keep up with the program.

I didn't know that I would have to work on one of my my student's car. At the end of the first two days I'd flushed his brake system and replaced the brake pads, along with him and another instructor who was helping out to get the student back on track.

I also didn't expect that I'd need to help another student and her boyfriend bleed the brakes on their new FR500 Mustang... But I did...

At the end of the three day weekend, I drove home knowing that I enjoyed helping two more people learn a little bit about their cars. I hoped that I helped the two students learn a little bit about getting around VIR south and VIR grandeast. I really appreciated the time I spent in the passenger seat, and it wasn't so much about "a break" in price, or some "status" that made me superior to anyone else...

I guess I'm just new to this whole instructor thing...

Mike

Gary R.

Very nice story Mike, congrats on becoming an instructor.