85Gold

[QUOTE=Bryan Watts;6822957]The 1 second difference between Hoosiers and Toyos that MOST see? You still stuck on believing that huh? Who are these "MOST" people you are talking to? Sorry Mark, there's more than 1 second there between Toyo's and Hoosiers, even on a short track. Hell, I bet there's more than 1 second around Lime Rock.



More racing experience in 2-3 club race weekends a year than WC guys? Umm, ok. Besides, the folks running in WC aren't just on track during WC weekends. Most of them are co-driving other places, club racing, coaching, etc, etc, etc. In a sport of such extreme precision, practice is EVERYTHING. Tiger Woods wouldn't win golf tournaments if he only showed up to play 2-3 times a year. I think you severely underestimate the importance of seat time. I suspect I'm a good 1.5-2 seconds, a lifetime, off the pace I once ran when I was driving 1-2 weekends a month as a kid. Some of the "Pros" I know are on track 3+ weekends a month and coaching at private test days a few weekdays in between. There's no substitution for practice, no matter how much natural talent and ability you may or may not have.


Bryan,

Don't sell yourself short After watching you and Ian (Black GT2) go at it @ the UTCC that is 1 seriously fast BMW and driver

Peter

Bryan Watts

Peter - Given Ian's speed in that beautiful Porsche, that's a big compliment. Not selling myself short...it's just the way things are. There's no way I'm as fast as I could be (or was in the past) given more time behind the wheel. There's simply no substitution for seat time and 2-3 weekends a year (where Dad and I are usually splitting the car and track time) is hardly enough seat time to remember which pedal is go and which is stop.

mark kibort

Byran is obviosly fast if he is running faster than WCTouring cars with 313rwhp and only 100lbs less weight. Im not saying 1-2 club weekends a year, im talking about all the experience up to date , on a familar track.

Sure,many of the pros are driving every weekend, but many in WC are not. how many races did Sofronas run this year? Gunter, who seems to be crashing a lot, is a real rookie, yet on occasion, he is running times RIGHT there with the big boys. (he was a rookie when he was club racing with us and we already had 100s of races, and experience experience over him). Woodhouse, a no name before '04, got all his experience with WC in vipers and then just this weekend, grabed a TSX touring car and wasnt even a factor. Lots of factors.

I know what you are saying, but there are many club guys that spin fast laps that can hang with most any pro lap to lap. as far as the toyos, you just have to know how to drive them. I just havent seen that much difference, with drivers that are pretty quick, in BMWCCA and in SCCA that have tried both. Im doing some handling changes this next race to see what happens with the hoosiers and have yet another brand new set (or almost new) that Ill use at our grand finale race at laguna next month.

Bottomline, you know i get a lot of quality seat time. I havent missed a race in many years. But, if I sat out a year, Im sure i could spin a hot lap at laguna, as did you at VIR. But, running faster than WCT times is pretty good, even on hoosiers, unless they are much less in HP than 313rwhp. you tell me.

mk


[QUOTE=85Gold;6823291]

mark kibort

Its better than talking to the beach boy?


EDIT: New rule, fire off an insult, and not add to the discussion, and I post you in your most glorious moment.

Hey, your right, you did have a picture of yourself on track

mark kibort

I think its a little of both. sure, a hot car can dominate, but skill wins races when its close racing, where strategy and decision making , as well as lack of mistakes, dictate outcome.

yes, Brandon. Yes, he is good. much better in the last couple of years too. BUT, ive raced him to in our club race where he was running before laguna WCT. I was able to hang and actualy beat him in my old bugger. (as well as Prall's BMW and one other real time car) our acceleration was near identical. actually he pulled me. I actually made time in the braking zones if you can belive that. I have the video, and some shots are on Youtube anyway. Now does brandon run much anything else. Not from what his dad has told me, but that was a while ago.

Hey, im tossing you a bone. just take it and say thanks. nice drive. you got a hot car and the times are fast. you have my respect. VR, is only shooting his mouth again, because, thats all he has to offer here.

85Gold

Bryan fast lap@ UTCC 1:59.717
Ian fast lap @ UTCC 1:59.727 3400# pig with 500whp and a very good suspension

I think you remember which pedal is which very well

Peter

Veloce Raptor

Thanks, I love seeing that picture. Post it some more!





Professional Racing and Driving Coach

Veloce Raptor

Mark, don't be nasty. You were warned about this. I am only stating the obvious facts, since we have gone round & round on the tire issue.

Davis' coach is a guy I know quite well, who has long experience in that sort of car. IMO, hooking up with him and having (finally) a stellar car is what made the difference.





Professional Racing and Driving Coach

himself

C'mon, Mark. Seriously. You do add to the discussions (mostly ), and even when you and [whoever] are tossing insults, it's usually not so bad I stop reading a particular thread.

I mean, textual ranting I can skim or pass over, but tossing that image out every other post will just clutter everything. How 'bout a compromise and you just post that pic just once per thread? I don't wanna put you on "ignore," but you gotta go easy with the "new rule" BS.

-td

mark kibort

You are such a joker. Hey, add some value here.

Now, you have seen my times with and without hoosiers. what can I try this next race at Sears that might show the differences of toyo vs hoosier much better? I think the main problem is my push, which my theory says that it might be working against the better tires. BUT, I am a firm believer in knowing how to drive the toyos. I like slidey cars, and they do slide well in the higher speed corners but the push in the medium speed turns is just aweful. I think ive addressed some high speed push with splitter changes and lower speed push with alignment. both the toyos and hoosiers will be tested again in the next race. Bryan, any suggestions? normally, like you say, you go from a slick set up to a DOT set up and dont change anything, and you get a loose car. however, with a DOT set up to a better DOT set up, you would think it would be more tight. its not,its actually quite better, but still pushy.

mk

Veloce Raptor

Tom, I love that picture. I am proud to have been in The Show, and the fact that, despite losing 5 laps to fix damage from the collision that caused that beaching, we still finished one place ahead of where we qualified.

The more that picture is posted, the bettter I look, and the more coaching business I am blessed with.

Capisce?

PS: are you doing the Maverick event next month?

Mark, I have probably added more value, based on FACTS, here than you would ever admit. Jury's out on your added value. And again, I purport that your lack of an appreciable difference between the tires is directly related to your set-up and how you drive. I will leave it at that.





Professional Racing and Driving Coach

mark kibort

Agreed. The Dave VR beach pic will only be posted once per thread, when he acts like an Axx. There is no reason we cant discuss this kind of topic wtihout getting personal.

mk

QUOTE=himself;6823472]C'mon, Mark. Seriously. You do add to the discussions (mostly ), and even when you and [whoever] are tossing insults, it's usually not so bad I stop reading a particular thread.

I mean, textual ranting I can skim or pass over, but tossing that image out every other post will just clutter everything. How 'bout a compromise and you just post that pic just once per thread? I don't wanna put you on "ignore," but you gotta go easy with the "new rule" BS.

-td[/QUOTE]

mark kibort

yeah, but you dont have one of these! a pic on track and a check!

as far as value, yes, it really depends if you want to help others here or just rant.
Personally, as i have said before, I've recieved much more info here than I could ever add.

as far as the tires go, sure driver is a factor, but so is the car, track and others as well. I just havent seen this 1-2 second difference with anyone that we race with on the west coast with toyos vs hoosiers, and we are talking quite a few drivers.
Now, slicks to hoosiers or toyos, sure, 1-2 seconds for sure.
Remember Dave, WCT times , on used same tires as WCT, same hp /weight , and no set up or tuning. you be the judge of that. ( Same times as Koni GS, with less weight, but also less quality tire)

Veloce Raptor

Wanna bet? Oh, and mine is from this decade...





Professional Racing and Driving Coach

Bryan Watts

Ha! I'm thinking that our weight advantage probably more than makes up for your car's power advantage.

The biggest problem I'm running into, given a lack of seat time, is that it now takes me a day to get up to speed. Compounding that problem is that my dad and I are usually splitting the car, resulting in less time for both of us. Noted, the track was hot/slow at UTCC, but I was still 1.3 secs off my best times earlier this year in April. I suspect if the UTCC had been run on Monday AFTER the NASA race weekend, I would have found some of that missing time (not all of it though, due to the track conditions and older tires). Long gone are the days of showing up to the track and being within a couple tenths of my best in the first session out.