tkerrmd

Dan I have been in the Suncoast region for close to 15 years. top notch region and people no question.
that's why I was a little suprised at what seemed to me being banned from our DE program for life was a "little over the top" really left no wiggle room to make any kind of amends

mhm993

I try to avoid contentious threads, but here goes:

1. Nothing good ever happens by venting on the internet. Tom's double secret lifetime ban is just another proof of that. (No offense meant. I've made this mistake, too)

2. Presuming Tom is a good guy, track aware and reasonably courteous, maybe the Red drivers upset by his closing speed need to reconsider driving in black or white.

3. Some track chairs and CI's are d*cks or d*ckettes. And some regions enjoy creating unnecessary drama at the track. Vote with your wallet and drive with less cranky regions.

4. By personal experience, it's amazing how the region's leadership sets the tone and demeanor at the track. Cranky and obnoxious CI's seem to create cranky DE experiences. One local region replaced its cranky track chair this year with a calmer member and their events miraculously and instantly become safer and more fun.

5.Drivers with fast, loud cars get more attention. They probably have to take extra care to avoid being singled out for behavior that might otherwise fall under the radar. Might not be fair, but truthful.

Barfly

I wonder what would have happened to Tony Ave if this happened at a PCA DE: http://videos.goracingtv.com/user_vi...l.php?mId=9755

It was a friend's video. We were grouped with Trans-Am on the test day that weekend. Make sure to turn the speakers up to get the full effect.

After watching that, we were laughing so hard we nearly pissed ourselves. I guess that was better than imagining what contact would have been like.

______
Jason

tkerrmd

Well said Marc and completely agree, thank you.

Gary R.

Agree 100% with 1st statement, 2nd statement shows the result, but I also believe putting it out here for comment had something to do with the what happened in that region. Clubs are all political in some way or another, its only when the bottom line is threatened that action is taken. Its friggin SILLY listening to the BS going on sometimes....

sbelles

I'ts been quite a while since I've been to a Suncoast DE (except the 48 hrs) but I think that they only run one instructor group. While that allows for more track time, it also creates a greater disparity between cars. That shouldn't be a problem if everybody minds their Ps and Qs but apperently it freaks some people out.

And yes, Tom is a good guy.

85Gold

""""2. Presuming Tom is a good guy, track aware and reasonably courteous, maybe the Red drivers upset by his closing speed need to reconsider driving in black or white. """"

There in lies another thread. With the disparity of speeds in the advanced groups more thought needs to given to speed based run groups. I also drive a 150+ mph car @ Sebring (PCA white group) and yes the closing speeds on a Spec Miata, S2000, Mini, Boxter/Cayman etc. are large, (no they don't catch me in the turns). The crowding of cars on the track, caused by the desire of sanctioning bodies to make a profit, necessary, aggravates this problem. This why I like HOD, (small groups no passing in turns), Seat Time @ RR (passing in turns advanced group with only 15 cars on track) the track is not crowded.

Peter

Wachuko

Well this sucks... I was lucky enough to have Tom as an instructor. He is focused, dedicated, consistent on the delivery of his advice. He would be talking all the time at first and as he saw me getting the message and improving he would get quieter. A great guy. And no BS type of guy. Wired! It was a great experience.

He also invited me as a passenger for one of his runs (before the run where another car blew up and Tom went over the oil spilled and the wall… ). You can see his dedication and love for the sport. For me, newbie, it was an Oh ****! moment, because I was able to see everything from inside the car.

If not doing so already, you need to move on to formal racing… but I would hate to see newbie’s like me miss out on having a great instructor.

tkerrmd

Thanks Scott, Peter, and Jaime, appreciate it but beware. I would attend Chin and others like Peter has suggested if you are not at a race venue. PCA DE is a great place (and my favorite place) to start and learn how to do it right. then with hp and speed and the desire to pass in corners etc and move toward racing the other venues are more suitable.
other PCA regions do allow passing by point bye in corners but some do not so the rules of each region differ and need to be understood and followed.

BobbyC

Tom, it's perhaps time to close this thread.

You're a good guy, honest and courteous. Many pieces of wisdom (and BS) have been provided in this thread. Move on and enjoy life both on and off the track, but put this episode firmly in the history books. The KEY in the choices you make is to remember, in this instance...Life's About Who You Want to Drive With!

Best...

tkerrmd

Thanks Bobby I agree and thanks to all for the good advise and input!

tom

VERBOTN

fast cars and closing speeds are not the issue IMO. It is a lack of Sit-Awareness which frankly is unacceptable in the instructor group level. If points are required and passing only certain zones then the low HP car (ME) has a responsibility to be aware who is coming and what is around. Doing so allows a timely point allowing the overtaking car to do so and for me to never lift.

Frankly this should not be an issue in the instructor group. What more annoying is for the high HP cars not lifting for me to get by after coming out of a corner.... ARGHHHHHH I want 600HP

Blondurant

I bet you know a guy... You make me smile. When ya ridin with me again??? I need to get speed cornering.

Tom, fight fire with fire. The guy's a nickname for the name Richard. I know there's 2 sides to every story but sounds like you're getting hosed. Good luck.

tkerrmd

Christian that is really the root of the matter, see ya at the track!!

Blondurant, thanks!

elh0102

Interesting thread. I haven't read every reply, but it seems that most replies are from the DE instructor/racer group, similar to Tom. My perspective is a bit different. I am an advanced group DE student, with 8 years of track experience in stock street cars. My continuing goal is simply to improve driving skills and enjoy myself. I have noticed that the participants in DE's in general, not just PCA, have consistently become more aggressive. In several events, I have requested being moved to an intermediate group for this very reason. This is not directly relevant to Tom's situation, since my run groups are usually solo students, so instructors are not part of the mix.

Granted, part of the problem is equipment, since the majority of participants in my run group is usually made up of folks in fully prepared track cars. But, in honesty, I have also noticed a change in attitude that seems to allow, if not encourage more aggressive driving. I'm not critical of that at all, in its place, but it has made me sufficiently uncomfortable on several occasions, that I left the event early.

It seems clubs are having difficulty maintaining the traditional DE environment, and maybe Tom's situation resulted from a more conservative attitude towards enforcement, perhaps too conservative. I think there is a need for addressing overly aggressive driving in DE's, and hopefully it can be done in a manner that will not result losing good instructors or students.

I'm not taking sides here, since I have no knowledge of any of the folks involved, and I have never been in one of Tom's regional events. Hopefully, the conflict can be resolved to everyone's safety and satisfaction.