My PCA region threw me out!! ADVISE PLEASE!
06-25-2009, 10:03 PM
#211
Drifting
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dallas/FortWorth Texas
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Bob, great post! You hit the nail on the head. And you brought up an aspect to this topic that I've been thinking about since the begining but no one has clearly addressed... Insurance. This may be in fact why the region and CI that has been vilified in this thread is calling out this instructor (I don't know the facts, so that is why I say "may"). PCA can only offer DE's as long as they qualify for cost effective insurance to cover the event. To qualify for that insurance, no doubt they have to meet whatever safety criteria the insurance company lays out which is probably (I'm only guessing here) monitored by PCA national. I've witnessed my own PCA region(s) try to reign in what they felt were risky driving practices in the upper run groups (I'm not an instructor, but drive a miata in the advanced run group). Obviously safety is the overriding reason for them wanting to do that, but behind that ultimately is the need to be able to continue to qualify for reasonably priced insurance. If the insurance is lost, we lose our PCA DE's. So maybe we ought to cut all of our PCA CI's a little slack and trust their judgement when they ask any of us to back off a notch or two. As Bob pointed out, what are we trying to win at a DE?
Just my rambling thoughts on this. But what the hell do I know, I drive a miata that isn't even as fast as a spec miata!
Just my rambling thoughts on this. But what the hell do I know, I drive a miata that isn't even as fast as a spec miata!
06-25-2009, 10:59 PM
#212
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Dec 2002
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[QUOTE=mhm993;6681181]I try to avoid contentious threads, but here goes:
1. Nothing good ever happens by venting on the internet. Tom's double secret lifetime ban is just another proof of that. (No offense meant. I've made this mistake, too)
I disagree. I think much good has come and still might arise from this thread (and many of Tom's threads). Take Bob R's post from earlier today, for example. Public discussions on how and why we run our events is good; public critique (fair and constructive) of our behavior and events makes for better events. I suspect Tom, given these thoughtful, courteous, and constructive postings ( and I suspect more than a few e-mails and PMs) would do things a little differently if he had the chance. I suspect the Suncoast CTI, after reading these many pages, wishes he/she would have handled this situation differently (better). Perhaps the Suncoast President will give both individuals that chance. Hopefully we all will be better drovers, instructors and participants in future events.
Jack
1. Nothing good ever happens by venting on the internet. Tom's double secret lifetime ban is just another proof of that. (No offense meant. I've made this mistake, too)
I disagree. I think much good has come and still might arise from this thread (and many of Tom's threads). Take Bob R's post from earlier today, for example. Public discussions on how and why we run our events is good; public critique (fair and constructive) of our behavior and events makes for better events. I suspect Tom, given these thoughtful, courteous, and constructive postings ( and I suspect more than a few e-mails and PMs) would do things a little differently if he had the chance. I suspect the Suncoast CTI, after reading these many pages, wishes he/she would have handled this situation differently (better). Perhaps the Suncoast President will give both individuals that chance. Hopefully we all will be better drovers, instructors and participants in future events.
Jack
06-25-2009, 11:00 PM
#213
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
ok alot of great posts today and all insightful or entertaining in one way or another.
can I just do a little recap as the thread is too long some may have not read or forgot.
I got black flagged several times at a DE I have done tons of. apparently the new CI may have had some instruction to have the corner workers tighten up the flagging for the strict beginning and ends of the passing zones. sebring has a good chunk of track upto and beyond the passing zones not including the corners. In the very recent pass these extra areas was were one would start to set up a pass coming onto the full passing zone.
well I got nailed several times at different points on the track in the same day and was asked to leave. never did anything close to dangerous.
fast forward, the CI told be they "talked" and thought it better I not instruct for them. I then had a phone conversation with the current CI. he was polite and reasonable and after it was over he agree I could teach and drive this upcoming DE.
Fine. later that night in true rennlist and instructional and experience sharing I shared this story as I thought it was interesting to this forum.
next day (assuming the rennlist post was not a secret) I received an email from the current CI saying I did not have the proper atitiude of an instructor and I was ban from future instructing for their DE
bottom line is last sentence to me was harsh, contradictory, unfair, and overkill. I emailed the CI back politely to ask him to please reconsider as instructing for our home region is something I really enjoy.
he has not responded and I take it that he is not of the mind set to explain why the sudden change of heart overnight not to re-instate me to their instructor ranks.
that is pretty much it again.
again thanks to all pro and con who took the time to lend some form of insight.
tom kerr
can I just do a little recap as the thread is too long some may have not read or forgot.
I got black flagged several times at a DE I have done tons of. apparently the new CI may have had some instruction to have the corner workers tighten up the flagging for the strict beginning and ends of the passing zones. sebring has a good chunk of track upto and beyond the passing zones not including the corners. In the very recent pass these extra areas was were one would start to set up a pass coming onto the full passing zone.
well I got nailed several times at different points on the track in the same day and was asked to leave. never did anything close to dangerous.
fast forward, the CI told be they "talked" and thought it better I not instruct for them. I then had a phone conversation with the current CI. he was polite and reasonable and after it was over he agree I could teach and drive this upcoming DE.
Fine. later that night in true rennlist and instructional and experience sharing I shared this story as I thought it was interesting to this forum.
next day (assuming the rennlist post was not a secret) I received an email from the current CI saying I did not have the proper atitiude of an instructor and I was ban from future instructing for their DE
bottom line is last sentence to me was harsh, contradictory, unfair, and overkill. I emailed the CI back politely to ask him to please reconsider as instructing for our home region is something I really enjoy.
he has not responded and I take it that he is not of the mind set to explain why the sudden change of heart overnight not to re-instate me to their instructor ranks.
that is pretty much it again.
again thanks to all pro and con who took the time to lend some form of insight.
tom kerr
06-26-2009, 09:02 AM
#215
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Wholly rash generalization Batman! While I would agree if you said " overly aggressive drivers" vs. "racers". I may be reading your statement wrong as you did put quotes around racers. As many have sighted racers can be good DE citizens. It is more likely the wanna be, limited experienced, and or just plain attitude issues that are at issue.
By the end of your own post, you figured it out. How "holy" satisfying!!
06-26-2009, 09:20 AM
#216
Needs to Get a Life
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Indeed;
Great stuff Bob, as per normal, but... it likely won't do any more good than usual - which is very little - because the offenders never see themselves as a problem. They guffaw along with all the "racers" and rail birds who say "F the Man", glow from the praise of students who don't know any better, and give short shrift to those that try to offer them the self awareness that they are lacking.
...and so it goes.
Great stuff Bob, as per normal, but... it likely won't do any more good than usual - which is very little - because the offenders never see themselves as a problem. They guffaw along with all the "racers" and rail birds who say "F the Man", glow from the praise of students who don't know any better, and give short shrift to those that try to offer them the self awareness that they are lacking.
...and so it goes.
