mooty

i think the wording "aggressive driving" has many meanings.... perhaps it's misunderstanding???

if you were passing without point by's in a run group that requires point by's. you have broken the rules. i have done that many times and have been warned. i no longer do that.

however, if they are complaining about your closing speed, i think they are wrong. as instructors (presumabely you run in instructors' group), they NEED to know the characteristics of all cars, modern or not so modern. the approx hp and speed of those cars, else they cannot teach. a 100hp 914 doesn't take the same line as a 600 GT2. that said, if i see a 600hp car behind me, i would start pointing him several turns ahead so he knows he has clear track. i want him out of my sight quickly so i can run clean fast laps and so can he. now if some dipsh^t is in front of me and i approach him after a long straight, what happens is i end up on his *** and by the time he sticks his finger out to point me by, the only way i can get by is dive bomb him.... in this case it's "anticipation" of lack of that caused the problem, not aggro driving.

i have been in those situations. i was told i was aggro. but hey, it's the longest straight on the track, i am WOT as i should be, and if the instructor in front of me doesn't know that a GT3 will catch up to a stock 993 964 on the straight before the braking zone for the upcoming turn... then i think he is the unsafe driver not me.

if that's the situation, you may want to discuss that with CTI.

i have shared trackes with cars that's 30 seconds faster per lap than my car. if you want to share the track with such cars, you need to know when he will catch up and get point by ready, dont blame the fast approaching car as aggro.

now if we are talking about going through a turn side by side in a DE, then i think most groups will frown upon that.

i think it's time to really have a discussion on the SPECIFIC with the CTI and other instructors who think you are aggro.

BrianKeithSmith

Mooty : spot on man!
I got kicked out once because I passed TWO - yes TWO BMW club racers @ VIR on the back straight.

Funny thing is I got kicked out after they acknowledged to the chief that they had no clue I was even there... AND THESE WERE BMW CLUB RACERS at a BMW EVENT...

You'd think someone would **** an eyebrow and say "hey wait a minute, the back straight is 4200 feet long, takes approx 20+ seconds to go from 1 end to the other, and you're telling me you never saw him?"

Nope, that would make too much sense...

Bryan Watts

Passed them without a signal? Sounds like you're both at fault there...hard to complain about being thrown out of an event when you blatantly broke one of the biggest safety rules IMO. It's only a few more seconds to pit in from the back straight where you could have reported the offenders and been let back out on track in open space. That said, BMW Club Racing has plenty of folks who seem to have done the "mirror delete" modification to their cars.

dmwhite

trust me, you'll get this from racers from just about any organization, not just bmwcca...we have our fair share of idiot racers but, from my experience, no more than any of the other organizations i've raced with...we aren't all that clueless

if someone didnt see your car coming on the backstraight at vir, they shouldnt be on track, much less instructing or racing...but if you passed them without a point-by, there's more to the issue...

BrianKeithSmith

oh I agree 100% Bryan

I broke the rule.

I'm just saying there's more to the story when KORMAN can't look in his rear view mirror

KRA993tt

Not to be too contrary here, I did not read all of the thread, but I'm guessing your yellow and black TT grabs attention sitting in the paddock. Your racing video alone could warrant some timeout from racing. I know it was racing but that was really poor judgement.

I'm guessing you probably scared people by driving at the DE like you do at races. The video being one example I'm sure you hope not to repeat. Not only should you talk to the folks you want to drive with but, you should probably have a talk with yourself about your true skills relative to those of your car.

tkerrmd

thanks Bob again for the insite but if some dont want me there so be it my whole point was what does one have to do to be banned for life from driving at their DE's I mean really that sounds aweful!!! I am one of the most motivated instructors around I love teaching and students love me!! I usually always am requested by people in advance, even several local celebs asked for me to be their instructor.
so I think from a national point of view how bad do you need to be to have this happen?? and who and how few people in a club must agree. Even the president of our region did not know a thing about this and was not even consulted on kicking one of their own bred instructors out of DE for life.
I am just saying seems a little much dont ya think?

Not to forget the other point was that after having a good chat on the phone with the CI he approved me driving this weekend and then after finding out about this post changed his mind???? How does that grab ya????

thanks again

tom

tkerrmd

Dave he was just trying to make a point their DE's are safe and fun for all, wouldnt make too much out of that Jose is a good guy and that's really not meant to be taken out of context.

tkerrmd

The point here is this, I NEVER broke ANY rules. never passed without a point bye.
I was flagged for getting on the gas at in the corner of an approach to the passing zone ie coming out of turn 5 into 6 and passing before the first bridge at Sebring if that is familiar. things like that. and fine I stand corrected.

and yes some of these instructors let me hit 150+ mph close on them and as I run up on them anticipating a point bye from an alert instructor I dont get one and hit the brakes instead, then they see me close on their bumper because I was forced to brake since I got no point by. does that make sense?

DaveM993

TedA

Dude... I have pointed you by on the back straight and there is no way you could have seen it without a sniper scope (you coming out of Oak Tree, me by the flag station at the top of the hill and you still getting by me by 14. No animals were harmed.

Situational awareness and checking your ego at the door is all it takes.

I know what it means when you show me the bumper, and proud to be there.

kurt M

90 hp 912. I think I need to start giving points to guys heading into South bend as I am cresting the hill on the back straight. Between the air resistance and the hill the pointers on the gauges just stop moving.

Bull

Come on Brian! Stick with the truth.......I have never seen it take you "20+ seconds to go from 1 end to the other" of the back straight at VIR!

I have seen you coming, many times (in one event).....

tkerrmd

thanks Keith and you are right and I have. if it helps at all my ABS unit failed and I couldnt slow the car properly, that combined with the fact I shouldnt have tried to pass both Ferrari's at once was my bad, and I learned and made amends and hopefully will never repeat that.

RedlineMan

Awww Geeeez...

This is really devolving. The more time goes by, the more I'm starting to side with the CI. All we rail birds really have to go on here is intuition. I am sure there is WAY more to this than meets the eye. What's filling my eye in this thread - over time - is that you just have way more boost than you know what to do with. That can be a blessing as well as a curse, and I'm not talking about the car. That is another problem altogether.

I've run across a few "guys like you" over the years (mostly worse), and I have to say that a lot of them really struggle. They almost set themselves up for failure. The Type A thing really gets to be a boor after a while, and the care and feeding of that "personality" becomes tedious to the point that one just wishes it gone. Even if you give back as much as you "cost them," in time the benefit gets lost in a cost that becomes too great. In short, you might just not be worth it to them anymore.

I think you need to take some time and SERIUOSLY consider what your automotive goals are. You need to think about blending in a bit, both personally and autmotively. Sticking out furthest gets you knocked off first in many cases. Step back, get some Zen going, and ask yourself what is most important to you and what makes you happiest?

In the final analysis, you've gotten here on your own. I scarcely think it is really where you want to be.

Best of luck, and I mean that.