Originally Posted by Seth Thomas

It is long but here is my review on the PFC 01s compared to Pagids on my GT3

For those that don't want to read the long post here is my summary:
Overall Impression: The PFC 01s are a superior pad for track driving. They are the same lap after lap, I never had a fading problem with them, they were easy on the rotors, they are relatively the same price as the Pagids, and were amazing from the first application of the brakes. The install went super easy compared to the Pagids (the Pagids were thicker and required more messaging to install). As the weekend went on I really became more and more impressed with the braking capability of the pads along with the ease of control with the pedal. At all times I could feel exactly how much baking capability the car had and I could keep it on the limit a lot easier than before. In my opinon these pads are the best for the car and I will be using them on my car from now on.



As most of you know there was a discussion last week about the use of Pagid brake pads on track and why most people use those. My Pagid RS-19 were shot after 6 DE events and I needed new pads. I ventured out of the Pagid realm after using them for the first set of track pads on my GT3 and ordered up a set of Performance Friction PFC-01 pads for a DE event at Road Atlanta.

Before track and install impression: The pads are super easy to install. I did 4 pads and two rotors in all of 1 hour. The difference in looks between the PFC pads and Pagids are the clean manufacturing look of the PFCs and the thickness. The Pagids appear to be a slight bit thicker overall. Overall I would give the PFC the edge here with the initial impression. They come packaged in a box that is padded and will travel well with moving the pads from track to track. Their initial look is one of exacting standards with a very clean appearance of a manufacturer that produces their products to the best standards of the racing industry. Did I also mention they come pre-bedded so there is no need to bed them in on the street like other pads.

Track Impressions (the most important): Wow! I really like these pads. My first thought upon the first application of the brakes when coming into T10A at Road Atlanta at 155MPH braking inside the 175ft mark is awesome! I love this stuff. The initial application of the brakes really bites hard but not hard enough to get into the ABS (which I try not to do under braking for reasons I can explain later). As I get deeper into the brake zone the pads are still biting but even more as they get hotter. I then start to modulate the pedal to keep from locking them up and trailbrake into the turn. All the way through the brake zone and turn in I could feel exactly where the brakes were and about how much I would need to get the exact amount of braking done I needed. Trailbraking I never got any lockup and I never had a problem with one end or the other biting more or not enough. You could really feel both ends of the car (brakes) working together all the time. One was not overpowering the other. The advantages of the PFCs over the Pagid were the initial bite being aggressive but smoother than the Pagids, through the brake zone the bite increased but not enough to trigger ABS, and the ability to feel the pedal effort needed to trailbrake into the turn.

The next spot to really try them out was in Turn 1 at Road Atlanta. This is a high speed right hander up a hill. It is not a super hard brake zone but it is very important to be able to get the car pointed correctly without upsetting the suspension or angle of attack. Trailbraking is reall important here. My first venture into turn 1 was amazing and it stayed the same the whole day. A nice abrupt hit of the brakes initially had lots of bit but not too aggressive. The rest of the brake zone was nice easy modulation followed by lots of trailbraking. The whole car was working together the whole time and I could really feel how much I needed to trailbrake into the turn. The rear had the same bite as the front and it was never at any point too grabby or caused any concern. The attitude of the whole car stayed poised with a sligth drift through the braking and first half of the turn until I released the brakes. The release was also a lot more controlled here. There were no sudden movements or jerks on the brakes or suspension from the brakes. The Pagids were different here in that I really had to watch how I trailed into the turn. Their initial bite caused too much nose dive and the release of the brakes was a lot more noticed. The PFCs won out here over the Pagids by a long shot in my opinion due to their ease of use, consisitent braking, and predictibility of their release under lots of trailbraking. This opinion was also shared by another driver that weekend who drove my GT3 and his first comment was about the brakes in Turn 1 trailbraking in.

Overall Impression: The PFC 01s are a superior pad for track driving. They are the same lap after lap, I never had a fading problem with them, they were easy on the rotors, they are relatively the same price as the Pagids, and were amazing from the first application of the brakes. The install went super easy compared to the Pagids (the Pagids were thicker and required more messaging to install). As the weekend went on I really became more and more impressed with the braking capability of the pads along with the ease of control with the pedal. At all times I could feel exactly how much baking capability the car had and I could keep it on the limit a lot easier than before. In my opinon these pads are the best for the car and I will be using them on my car from now on.

I hope this does help to add some more info to the brake pad discussion. Any questions just ask away.

Originally Posted by Geoffrey

Seth, You mention that your pad comparison was PFC-01 vs Pagid RS-19? The two pads are not targeted for the same environment are they? I had always thought that the PFC-01 was a sprint type pad and I know the Pagid RS-19 / 29 are the endurance pad. There is a large difference between them and the Pagid RS-14 which I think would be a better comparison to the PFC-01. Did I skim through your writeup too quickly?

Originally Posted by mark kibort

Im going out in a couple of weeks to our first race at Sears. Ive changed from the pagid orange, to the pagid blacks (RS-14). I was on the fence when we were discussing this a couple of months ago. Was your comparison with the oranges vs PFC-01s or Blacks?

You sound pretty bullish on the PFC-01/06s and will give them a shot next.

mk

Originally Posted by Geoffrey

Seth, I think you may want to check your Pagid information. The Pagid RS19 is the endurance pad with the RS29 just the latest and greatest and very little difference between the two. The RS14 is their sprint pad and there is a very, very large difference in bite, both initial and overall between the RS19/29 pads, and the RS14. I believe your comparison is of a Performance Friction sprint pad PFC01 vs a Pagid endurance pad RS19/29

Originally Posted by va122

so 06 vs 01's then?

Originally Posted by Seth Thomas

Nope I did check my information straight from Pagid's website.

Same link you referenced.

The RS 14 is a medium high friction pad. The RS19 is the same as the RS14 with a slight reduction in friction for better pad wear. RS29 is the RS19 with a high coefficient of friction. To me all of this sounds like they are very similar in pad material and coefficient of friction.

Regardless, in my comparison one of the real differences of the PFC pads and the Pagids pads is the initial bite and the release characteristics. The PFCs are smoother in both and they offer better performance in the brake zone. So if what you are saying is true and the RS14 is a better pad then the initial bite and release characteristics will be worse with the RS14. ( Pagid says the RS14 has a high initial bite).

Your thoughts are welcomed in this discussion as this will help everyone have more info than they did before.

Originally Posted by Geoffrey

I'm not saying that the Pagids are better than PFCs because lets face it, much of it is driver preference, although there are some characteristic differences that are clearly factually based.

Yea, I read the differences about the three pads but can tell you from experience, when you step on an RS19 or 29, it feels like nothing is happening whereas an RS14 really grabs hard (all things relevant). Look at the friction graph which supports what I have experienced. It would have been interesting to see the difference between the PFC01 and the RS14 on your car.

Originally Posted by Brian P

I tried the RS19 and the RS29's once, and that was enough to move me back to the RS14. There is a night and day difference between those compounds.

Originally Posted by flatsics

http://www.bimmerworldracing.com/sponsors.php
Seth, I see PFC on this list but not Pagid.
So one could argue that you may be biased a wee bit.

FWIW the Pagid Black RS14 is a very good compound. I think you would like them compared to the RS19. I race a 1979 911SC with 993 TT front brakes and 964 Turbo rear brakes. No ABS. I find that the RS14 has nice feel and is easy to modulate even in the rain.

You state thate the Pagids lose bite as they heat up in the brake zone.( I have never felt this about the RS14)
I have never thought about it this way, but maybe that is one of the reasons why 911 drivers like them. I think because of the rear engine layout of the 911 (less weight over the front axle) you have bleed brake pressure as you slow for the corner--more than a front engine car. Maybe the two work well together.