Pagid orange vs PFC 97.......
03-09-2009, 11:21 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Pagid Orange are an oooollllldddd compound...no comparison to PFC's...Pagid Black maybe...Orange used to leave deposits all over my rotors...I have been very happy using PFC 97's and 01's.
03-09-2009, 11:30 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
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yours truly,
vito
03-10-2009, 12:02 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
It is long but here is my review on the PFC 01s compared to Pagids on my GT3
For those that don't want to read the long post here is my summary:
Overall Impression: The PFC 01s are a superior pad for track driving. They are the same lap after lap, I never had a fading problem with them, they were easy on the rotors, they are relatively the same price as the Pagids, and were amazing from the first application of the brakes. The install went super easy compared to the Pagids (the Pagids were thicker and required more messaging to install). As the weekend went on I really became more and more impressed with the braking capability of the pads along with the ease of control with the pedal. At all times I could feel exactly how much baking capability the car had and I could keep it on the limit a lot easier than before. In my opinon these pads are the best for the car and I will be using them on my car from now on.
As most of you know there was a discussion last week about the use of Pagid brake pads on track and why most people use those. My Pagid RS-19 were shot after 6 DE events and I needed new pads. I ventured out of the Pagid realm after using them for the first set of track pads on my GT3 and ordered up a set of Performance Friction PFC-01 pads for a DE event at Road Atlanta.
Before track and install impression: The pads are super easy to install. I did 4 pads and two rotors in all of 1 hour. The difference in looks between the PFC pads and Pagids are the clean manufacturing look of the PFCs and the thickness. The Pagids appear to be a slight bit thicker overall. Overall I would give the PFC the edge here with the initial impression. They come packaged in a box that is padded and will travel well with moving the pads from track to track. Their initial look is one of exacting standards with a very clean appearance of a manufacturer that produces their products to the best standards of the racing industry. Did I also mention they come pre-bedded so there is no need to bed them in on the street like other pads.
Track Impressions (the most important): Wow! I really like these pads. My first thought upon the first application of the brakes when coming into T10A at Road Atlanta at 155MPH braking inside the 175ft mark is awesome! I love this stuff. The initial application of the brakes really bites hard but not hard enough to get into the ABS (which I try not to do under braking for reasons I can explain later). As I get deeper into the brake zone the pads are still biting but even more as they get hotter. I then start to modulate the pedal to keep from locking them up and trailbrake into the turn. All the way through the brake zone and turn in I could feel exactly where the brakes were and about how much I would need to get the exact amount of braking done I needed. Trailbraking I never got any lockup and I never had a problem with one end or the other biting more or not enough. You could really feel both ends of the car (brakes) working together all the time. One was not overpowering the other. The advantages of the PFCs over the Pagid were the initial bite being aggressive but smoother than the Pagids, through the brake zone the bite increased but not enough to trigger ABS, and the ability to feel the pedal effort needed to trailbrake into the turn.
The next spot to really try them out was in Turn 1 at Road Atlanta. This is a high speed right hander up a hill. It is not a super hard brake zone but it is very important to be able to get the car pointed correctly without upsetting the suspension or angle of attack. Trailbraking is reall important here. My first venture into turn 1 was amazing and it stayed the same the whole day. A nice abrupt hit of the brakes initially had lots of bit but not too aggressive. The rest of the brake zone was nice easy modulation followed by lots of trailbraking. The whole car was working together the whole time and I could really feel how much I needed to trailbrake into the turn. The rear had the same bite as the front and it was never at any point too grabby or caused any concern. The attitude of the whole car stayed poised with a sligth drift through the braking and first half of the turn until I released the brakes. The release was also a lot more controlled here. There were no sudden movements or jerks on the brakes or suspension from the brakes. The Pagids were different here in that I really had to watch how I trailed into the turn. Their initial bite caused too much nose dive and the release of the brakes was a lot more noticed. The PFCs won out here over the Pagids by a long shot in my opinion due to their ease of use, consisitent braking, and predictibility of their release under lots of trailbraking. This opinion was also shared by another driver that weekend who drove my GT3 and his first comment was about the brakes in Turn 1 trailbraking in.
Overall Impression: The PFC 01s are a superior pad for track driving. They are the same lap after lap, I never had a fading problem with them, they were easy on the rotors, they are relatively the same price as the Pagids, and were amazing from the first application of the brakes. The install went super easy compared to the Pagids (the Pagids were thicker and required more messaging to install). As the weekend went on I really became more and more impressed with the braking capability of the pads along with the ease of control with the pedal. At all times I could feel exactly how much baking capability the car had and I could keep it on the limit a lot easier than before. In my opinon these pads are the best for the car and I will be using them on my car from now on.
I hope this does help to add some more info to the brake pad discussion. Any questions just ask away.
For those that don't want to read the long post here is my summary:
Overall Impression: The PFC 01s are a superior pad for track driving. They are the same lap after lap, I never had a fading problem with them, they were easy on the rotors, they are relatively the same price as the Pagids, and were amazing from the first application of the brakes. The install went super easy compared to the Pagids (the Pagids were thicker and required more messaging to install). As the weekend went on I really became more and more impressed with the braking capability of the pads along with the ease of control with the pedal. At all times I could feel exactly how much baking capability the car had and I could keep it on the limit a lot easier than before. In my opinon these pads are the best for the car and I will be using them on my car from now on.
As most of you know there was a discussion last week about the use of Pagid brake pads on track and why most people use those. My Pagid RS-19 were shot after 6 DE events and I needed new pads. I ventured out of the Pagid realm after using them for the first set of track pads on my GT3 and ordered up a set of Performance Friction PFC-01 pads for a DE event at Road Atlanta.
Before track and install impression: The pads are super easy to install. I did 4 pads and two rotors in all of 1 hour. The difference in looks between the PFC pads and Pagids are the clean manufacturing look of the PFCs and the thickness. The Pagids appear to be a slight bit thicker overall. Overall I would give the PFC the edge here with the initial impression. They come packaged in a box that is padded and will travel well with moving the pads from track to track. Their initial look is one of exacting standards with a very clean appearance of a manufacturer that produces their products to the best standards of the racing industry. Did I also mention they come pre-bedded so there is no need to bed them in on the street like other pads.
Track Impressions (the most important): Wow! I really like these pads. My first thought upon the first application of the brakes when coming into T10A at Road Atlanta at 155MPH braking inside the 175ft mark is awesome! I love this stuff. The initial application of the brakes really bites hard but not hard enough to get into the ABS (which I try not to do under braking for reasons I can explain later). As I get deeper into the brake zone the pads are still biting but even more as they get hotter. I then start to modulate the pedal to keep from locking them up and trailbrake into the turn. All the way through the brake zone and turn in I could feel exactly where the brakes were and about how much I would need to get the exact amount of braking done I needed. Trailbraking I never got any lockup and I never had a problem with one end or the other biting more or not enough. You could really feel both ends of the car (brakes) working together all the time. One was not overpowering the other. The advantages of the PFCs over the Pagid were the initial bite being aggressive but smoother than the Pagids, through the brake zone the bite increased but not enough to trigger ABS, and the ability to feel the pedal effort needed to trailbrake into the turn.
The next spot to really try them out was in Turn 1 at Road Atlanta. This is a high speed right hander up a hill. It is not a super hard brake zone but it is very important to be able to get the car pointed correctly without upsetting the suspension or angle of attack. Trailbraking is reall important here. My first venture into turn 1 was amazing and it stayed the same the whole day. A nice abrupt hit of the brakes initially had lots of bit but not too aggressive. The rest of the brake zone was nice easy modulation followed by lots of trailbraking. The whole car was working together the whole time and I could really feel how much I needed to trailbrake into the turn. The rear had the same bite as the front and it was never at any point too grabby or caused any concern. The attitude of the whole car stayed poised with a sligth drift through the braking and first half of the turn until I released the brakes. The release was also a lot more controlled here. There were no sudden movements or jerks on the brakes or suspension from the brakes. The Pagids were different here in that I really had to watch how I trailed into the turn. Their initial bite caused too much nose dive and the release of the brakes was a lot more noticed. The PFCs won out here over the Pagids by a long shot in my opinion due to their ease of use, consisitent braking, and predictibility of their release under lots of trailbraking. This opinion was also shared by another driver that weekend who drove my GT3 and his first comment was about the brakes in Turn 1 trailbraking in.
Overall Impression: The PFC 01s are a superior pad for track driving. They are the same lap after lap, I never had a fading problem with them, they were easy on the rotors, they are relatively the same price as the Pagids, and were amazing from the first application of the brakes. The install went super easy compared to the Pagids (the Pagids were thicker and required more messaging to install). As the weekend went on I really became more and more impressed with the braking capability of the pads along with the ease of control with the pedal. At all times I could feel exactly how much baking capability the car had and I could keep it on the limit a lot easier than before. In my opinon these pads are the best for the car and I will be using them on my car from now on.
I hope this does help to add some more info to the brake pad discussion. Any questions just ask away.
03-10-2009, 12:22 AM
#20
-td
03-10-2009, 12:29 AM
#21
Three Wheelin'
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Seth,
Great writeup. I think many miss the importance of the release characteristics of pads. I agree with you, that is where the Oranges fail in my view. I've got a set of 01 waiting to be put on but the old 97 won't wear out fast enough. Can't wait to try them.
I still can't understand why people like the Oranges. I have a feeling that those that do are overslowing at turn in and not truely modulating at that point. Only a guess....
G.
Great writeup. I think many miss the importance of the release characteristics of pads. I agree with you, that is where the Oranges fail in my view. I've got a set of 01 waiting to be put on but the old 97 won't wear out fast enough. Can't wait to try them.
I still can't understand why people like the Oranges. I have a feeling that those that do are overslowing at turn in and not truely modulating at that point. Only a guess....
G.
03-10-2009, 12:30 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
03-10-2009, 12:30 AM
#23
Three Wheelin'
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03-10-2009, 12:54 AM
#24
03-10-2009, 10:15 AM
#27
Three Wheelin'
PFC fah sho! I switched from Pagid orange to PFC 97 in my old car and found the PFC's to be mo betta in modulation, they just felt better than the pagids did. I run PFC's in my new car now, that is when I actually run the thing...
03-10-2009, 10:23 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Professional Racing and Driving Coach
03-10-2009, 10:28 AM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Yeah that too. I forgot about them being pre-bedded, this is a huge advantage.
