M758

Well yes and no.

The fact of the mater is that just like in the real word cars flowing smooth are the safest it is the same on the track.

IMHO.. the safest format for advanced drivers is to open passing on straights and point bys in the corners. The reason is that straights are where the fastest speed differentials can be found and slowing down to wait for a signal is stupid. I have been in the position of accelerating out of a corner trying to both give point bys and keeping my car going shifting gear etc. Well I can't keep the arm out all the time and with 3 car pulling like mad behind me just let them go. Don't wait for my signal.

In the corners passing with a singal is important since by not passing you force other cars to slow down and wait. With a point by the lead car can open up a space and let the fast car flow right through. Done well neither car is impacted speed wise.

So when the driver get to an advanced skill level open passing is a safey improvment. As for passing in corners without signals... That can work to however even in non racing enviroments it can create the "Holy heck I did not think he would pass there" situation.

I have been in race groups for 7 years and still give point bys as much as I can during practice, qualfying and even for lap cars during races. It makes it so much easier to get by and some times to keep my mometum I need to sort of slow the fast car and hold them up abit. In those cases I always give strong clear point bys as soon as I can because I don't want them thinking I never saw them.

smlporsche

Interesting comments Joe.

I agree that when the "traffic" flows it's better for everyone.

I also really like the idea of passing on the straights w/out any signal in the advanced run groups. You and I both drive momentum cars and the timing of a pass is sometimes crucial to its proper execution. Getting a good run through the corner(s) but then having to wait for a point by when it should be obvious can sometime hamper your ability to pull it off.

Maybe Manny & Pete would consider it for the Zone 2 event ???

Bob Rouleau

FWIW, I have never had a problem with Real Racers participating in a DE, it's the wanna-be racers that are more likely to pose a risk.

DarkSideDE

Can anyone explain to me the difference between passing on a straight without a point and racing? I'm getting confused.

M758

Very simple. In racing the guy in front does not want you to pass.

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Now that concept may seem odd, but for anyone who has raced the difference between racing for position and letting a car through is vast even on a straight-away.

Bull

Exactly! In fact, I have seen some of the "wanna-be racers" finally get into racing, have their asses handed to them, then learn a lot. When they come to a DE after that experience, they are very different people.

Bull

Joe said it exactly right.

va122

amen

TIM COSTA

2) I agree with you that there are some people who view DE as racing, however, most of the time, those folks are people who don't race and have never raced. The racers I know have a high degree of respect for the DE program and respect the rules. At times the perception is that Racers are a problem because of the speed differential between them and the DE instructor groups when in reality it is the evidence of the skill difference between a Racer and a DE instructor.


AMEN!!!!


PCA is not melding Club racing into DEs its simply trying to make its DE events run smoother.

930man

been doing it for years with Nasa works fantasicly

Mike Buck

I am still on the fence about how I will approach this at the Zone 2 event. I'm signed up in Black. From my race experience, I have no problem driving my car anywhere on that track surface. If someone gives me a pass in a corner, I'd have no problem taking it.

My question is, how much is the rule change really going to change things from a "flow" perspective? The folks that screw up the flow under the current rules aren't magically get better just because the rules change. They lack the situational awareness to let people by on the straights as it is and now we are asking they try and let people pass in the corner, side by side with them?

Here is a situation that happens to me all too often. Coming out of Oak Tree, dude gives me a point by. My car is slow, so of course they walk away down the straight. Into the braking zone I usually close the gap way back up. In fact, I could usually pass them if I was so allowed to drive all the way up the left side next to theme at the top of the roller coaster. Now if the rules say I can pass in a corner, does this mean I am allowed to do this in that right hander at the top of the roller coaster? I mean, I didn't wave the pass off and the passing zones are the entire track correct?

smlporsche

Mike- Good question of which I don't have the answer but I suspect that it does not carry that far down the track.

One thing that Zone 2 and others have done with their instructor corps, and has worked relatively well, is used the black / red grouping to divide cars into lower / higher HP classes.

Hope to meet you and talk shop as we'll both be in black.

Geoffrey

With a point by. The purpose of a point is to establish a 2 way communication between drivers so everyone knows what is going to happen. I would say you need to reestablish that communication.

Just like Club racing under 13/13 rules, you don't stick your nose under a car if you don't know the other driver is aware you are there.

Mike Buck

I see this rule as being fun for the folks that want to try passing in a corner, just to get a new perspective. It will not help those who didn't "get it" under the old system. Which means the group as a whole is still not moving forward.

Hi Eddie,
Does zone 2 really do that? I seem to remember a whole host of different folks. Everyone coming from everywhere, thinks they belong in a higher group. Armband color = paddock cred right? lol


Maybe we should call this "completing your pass in the corner" vs. "passing in the corner". That is ultimately what it will be more like. With this new freedom, there is no fear of penalty for getting that pass done at turn in. So instead of having to back out as you get to the brake zones, you can keep going and complete that pass.

Manny Alban

Eddie-I don't forsee PCA eliminating passing signals on straights. Stop by the Registration Garage after we try the test and give me your feedback.

Mike-The Zone 2 DE does try and separate black and red by horsepower. It seemed to work pretty well last year. Granted, having horsepower and knowing how to use and control it are two different things. We had some folks who had serious horsepower, but didn't have the track down as good as they thought and asked to be moved to black. Consequently, we had some lower HP cars feel that they were being held back and we moved them to Red. Seemed to work well. Mind you, Tremper, myself and Tom Zaffarano, the CI, are all in black I don't need a wrist band for paddock cred....I got polka dots on my car