DanS911

+1 I think this should be a standard rule for safety and predictability. The only difference is in "less restricted" passing in the corners no one owns the line. This is the biggest "change" for most drivers, you can't just zip across the track from the turn in to the apex and back across the track to the track out without checking your mirrors.

trumperZ06

Yep... Chin's been doing this for Years...

in the advanced/instructors group.

We've had Grand Am and ALMS teams use Chin events for

Test & Tune.

Gotta keep aware of "who's on the track"....

even given those drivers play well with others.

Paul 996

Nearly every "other" group I run allows this for instructor sessions. Some allow it for advanced groups as well.

I think that Rule #2 needs expansion as the 50/50 logic seems flawed. If I signal to allow a mid corner pass I am willingly letting that car by. I don't lay claim to 50% of the track, I also don't intend to pinch him/her off or show them what I can really do from the apex to track out. Beat that into their heads first.

IMHO the advanced solo group drivers are the worst at giving passing signals and not drag racing you to the next corner after a passing signal.

Thanks!

Manny Alban

Great to hear all these positive replies. I'm looking forward to it and also hope it's a safe and successful test.

DarkSideDE

Dark Side does this as well - but only in the red run group. We have quite a few DE instructors that do not want to pass anywhere with a point - only in the straight-aways - and placing them in black accommodates them.

We just like to remind everyone to bring their manners with them - and be alert, aware and courteous at all times. It has worked out well, and we've enjoyed the pleasant reaction. Other good news, it is accepted by Lockton-Affinity for those of you who take out their one event HPDE insurance policy.

So far, this has worked out wonderfully and we have seen less aggressive track behavior for it. We allow our cornerworkers to throw the black flag quicker if anything is out of whack. It is working, we love having it and knowing that K&K says it's okay to do.

sbelles

I've made it to this event seven of the last eight years. Unfortunately it's not in the cards this year.

It's about time! Restricted passing is the main reason that I don't do more PCA events. Maybe if this works out they will eventually create an open passing group like PBOC.

DogInBlack

I think it is a great idea and teaches advanced situational awareness and car control. Be very strict about drivers that don't play well with others. Maybe have a debrief with that group mandatory mid-day to talk about issues and any miscommunications on track. Good luck, I hope it becomes part of the PCA DE program.

M758

Great thing to come to PCA.

Restricted passing makes great sense in the novice groups. There is too much going on for drivers to deal with passing on top of that. In the upper groups the drivers need to be aware of their surroundings an passing any place on track should be allowed. These guys are supposed to be more experienced and should be able to handle it.

Heck I would be ok with no signals on straights and passing in corners with points.

smlporsche

I have some mixed feelings about this but in the end I am in favor of a trial event.

I too have run with a few Grand Am teams in a test and tune format with open passing with a point by and for the most part it went very well. I liked it that I had to "up my game" to run with them (not necessarily at the same speed ;-0 ) and at the end of the day I felt I had made progress as a driver which is what it's all about. Can this be done with 50 other cars on the track as easily? I guess we'll find out.

My biggest concern is the abuse of passing without a point by..

Like it or not this has always been a hallmark of the Zone 2 event in the last 3 or 4 years that I have run in the upper run groups... Now, it's one thing for someone to take a late pass w/out a point by but it will be a whole other ball of wax if someone tries it in a corner w/out a point by. For example, there are places where I will not be giving a point by such as the uphill esses and Oak Tree no matter who is behind me.

My thought would be to sit anyone out for the remainder of the session who does it the first time and eject them the second time it happens.

Manny and Pete any thoughts on this??

MJSpeed

I think its a great idea...so as long as the rules set forth are followed and enforced.

Driver8

+1

It will only take a few bad apples to ruin this for all. I am looking forward to attending a DE this season with the new passing rules. Maybe it will come to the Zone 1 48 hours?

race911

Have not run a track event in 5-6 years that didn't have open passing. (Maybe not every group in an event will be open, but the most advanced is. Step down your game accordingly if you're running in a slower group.) Can't really ever remember having anything close to a problem. And on any given day I can be driving cars that run a 20-25 second spread, so I see it from both ends.

George from MD

A great idea and overdue IMO. I didn't say this but it's being done already without incident- by drivers who know each other and play nice. I share the qualm on the 50/50 rule- IMO the car giving the point by should slow and move off line if necessary to ensure a safe pass- not insist on 50% of the track. I also agree on the passengers- this is a learning experience after all- it's better if students see the instructors playing politely and learn how to modify their lines through corners.

I definitely concur that passing without a point by should be rewarded with a blackflag and loss of a session. Doing it again should send you home. This isn't enforced enough IMO and is more likely to end in incidents if (when) we allow passing in corners.

Accelerator

Great idea. Every other club I run with has this format and students are always allowed to do ride alongs with instructors.

007DT

As others have mentioned. It works with a lot of sanctioned groups ie. Chin, BMW, etc. Last year I was talking w/ a chief instructor and organizer w/ BMW about open passing. He told me that they did it years ago and it quickly got out of control, (read: too aggressive) so he immediately stopped it. eg. Saturday was open passing and he warned the group that subsequent DE’s were becoming too aggressive, by Sunday they pulled it. He kept the next 2 DE events with that group (Peachstate) with out open passing. He eventually reintroduced it and since then it has been fine.
So on behalf of all of the PCA guys: Those who are attending this event, please behave yourselves, your actions will likely result in this being implemented to other locations.